Could The UK, France, Nl beat Japan by itself?

Eh, I'd put it more as that they had some of the most resilient troops at a *tactical* level of all the major powers, but their strategic and logistical concepts were a cruel joke. Note that all I said was "resilient", not "good" or "best."
Well they have to be resiliant, don't they what with the Amenrican, British and European democracies wiping up the Pacific with them.
 
This gave me an idea for a spin off TL from The Whale Has Wings where the Nazis never come to power where there's a Franco-Italian War in the Med and Japan fights a war with Britain, France and The Netherlands in Asia and the Pacific but I just can't see how even the wartime the Japanese would be that suicidal.
 
What skill they had in tactical situations the banzai-attacks pretty much negated that advantage.

Yeah, reality does have a bad hapit of ensueing.

To be fair, the "banzai charge" (玉砕, "shattered jade") was virtually never used as an actual offensive tactic. It was only used after all hope of victory was lost--in situations where the Western Allies would simply surrender. It was merely a means to commit suicide honorably, with the bonus of a 0.05% chance of inflicting some casualties on the enemy. It was never used as a serious attack strategy.
 
This gave me an idea for a spin off TL from The Whale Has Wings where the Nazis never come to power where there's a Franco-Italian War in the Med and Japan fights a war with Britain, France and The Netherlands in Asia and the Pacific but I just can't see how even the wartime the Japanese would be that suicidal.
I wouldn't mind if you were to use this as a idea. Could you give me credit though for giving ya the idea? :eek:
 
This gave me an idea for a spin off TL from The Whale Has Wings where the Nazis never come to power where there's a Franco-Italian War in the Med and Japan fights a war with Britain, France and The Netherlands in Asia and the Pacific but I just can't see how even the wartime the Japanese would be that suicidal.

Well if you start with a strong but not insane German government in the 30's Britain and France could appear quite timid from the distance of Japan. Reversing provisions of Versailles, disarmament conferences, peace movements etc. They might persude themselves that the old colonial powers will simply cave in the face of a military fait accompli. Then when the British and French are committed Mussolini has a brainwave...
 
Well if you start with a strong but not insane German government in the 30's Britain and France could appear quite timid from the distance of Japan. Reversing provisions of Versailles, disarmament conferences, peace movements etc. They might persude themselves that the old colonial powers will simply cave in the face of a military fait accompli. Then when the British and French are committed Mussolini has a brainwave...
Say, would it only have to be a Franco-Italian war in the med? I know Britian had a hard enough time fighting Germany and Italy and Japan in OTL, but if it's just fighting Japan, I could see them sending some aid in the form of aid to help France-Don't expect too much from the Netherlands though until the DEI is invaded..
 
Say, would it only have to be a Franco-Italian war in the med? I know Britian had a hard enough time fighting Germany and Italy and Japan in OTL, but if it's just fighting Japan, I could see them sending some aid in the form of aid to help France-Don't expect too much from the Netherlands though until the DEI is invaded..

Depends if the Italians get ambitious and decide to go after Egypt, though with Britain not having to worry about cross channel invasion even Mussolini might not be that reckless.
 
Depends if the Italians get ambitious and decide to go after Egypt, though with Britain not having to worry about cross channel invasion even Mussolini might not be that reckless.
Eh, either way with Britian preparing herself for war with Japan and Italy's troops being as they were...(Having to use mustard gas to subdue Ethiopa..)I'd hate to be one of the Italian troops fighting the Brits AND The French....:(
 
That statement will come as a surprise to the RN who, barring the war in Europe, would have had eleven aircraft carriers in service in 1941 and several more under order or construction.
Which, initially, would be carrying Fulmars or, worse and absent a war in Europe to prove them in combat, Skuas. Those aircraft won't fare well when confronted with Zeroes.
Even with the tide eventually turned and the Allies on the offensive, would the Allies push for unconditional surrender over some colonies? Or would they be content with finishing most of the IJN, taking the Japanese colonies in the Pacific and be done with it?
 
To be fair, the "banzai charge" (玉砕, "shattered jade") was virtually never used as an actual offensive tactic. It was only used after all hope of victory was lost--in situations where the Western Allies would simply surrender. It was merely a means to commit suicide honorably, with the bonus of a 0.05% chance of inflicting some casualties on the enemy. It was never used as a serious attack strategy.

Like the Kamikaze AIr Attacks, they only used it when they were all, like,

"Well it's all over with now, might as well go out in a blaze of glory."

"Also a good way to commit honorable Seppuku via U.S> Marine.
 
Like the Kamikaze AIr Attacks, they only used it when they were all, like,

"Well it's all over with now, might as well go out in a blaze of glory."

"Also a good way to commit honorable Seppuku via U.S> Marine.

Whereas Allied troops would have looked to get away and fight another day. As the saying attributed to Patton goes:

"Now I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."
 
Whereas Allied troops would have looked to get away and fight another day. As the saying attributed to Patton goes:

"Now I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."

That is because we are trained to think of ourselves as an expensive and valuable military asset that should not be fritted away on little or no value missions or hazards.
 
The governments of Britain and France will love having an excuse to build up their militaries again, thereby helping to end their depressions. British and French infantry vastly outclassed the Japanese, and if they can get them to China it would not be unreasonable to see the Japanese kicked out of there. Japan might have an immediate naval advantage due to having superior carrier aviation, but the British will be able to outproduce them in the long run.
 
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