Could the Reformation sweep through the whole of the Church?

So I was watching the 2003 movie Luther earlier today, and it got me thinking. Could it have been possible for the Protestant Reformation to gain more momentum and eventually cause the whole of the Catholic Church to reform, preventing the Protestant/Catholic split?

And going further...what would be the implications of this continued Christian unity? (obviously it would be huge. Just HOW huge though?)

Bonus points if we could end up with Luther as Pope, or have a post-reformation take on the name of Luther sometime in the future.
 
It's important to remember that Lutheranism got a boost from historical animosity between German princes and Rome. A longstanding power struggle over control of the Holy Roman Emperor and the entrenchment of Roman bishops in Germany had made German princes and lower nobility eager for a chance to assert their own power over the local Churches. This was why Lutheranism was largely confined to Germany, Scandinavia, and, briefly, Poland. Luther himself picked up on where his strongest supporters were sitting during the peasant uprising that occured around that time, when he condemned it so as to maintain the favor of the German nobility.

The whole of the Catholic Church did reform, in terms of its organization, at Trent, but not before the political separation of German protestantism from Rome had already taken place. To expand Lutheran teachings to the entire Roman Catholic Church, you'd need to somehow divorce it from the German nobility and make it into a grassroots effort among all the clergy.
 
Interestingly, one predecessor to Luther and Calvin was in *Italy*. There is a local, small native Prostestant church (who however adopted later some.. lutherian, calvinist or presbyterian ideas, not sure) who is still alive now, I heard.

maybe this is a POD... have this be a start of a local revolt against the Vatican, maybe, and-or adopted by nobles...
 
Savronola is almost an example of an Italian reformer, that Ubergeek you are talking about.

In general the church was to politicized to be reformed wholly. The spanish and French monarchs already had the power to choose bishops.
 
Savronola is almost an example of an Italian reformer, that Ubergeek you are talking about.

In general the church was to politicized to be reformed wholly. The spanish and French monarchs already had the power to choose bishops.

No, something more radical, a pre-Protestanism, well, prostestant of sort. like Jean Hus. I will loook at wikipedia.
 
It would depend on the pope. If he accepts Luther's ideas then the church would reform. However given the political entanglement of the church at the time I think this is unlikeky, possibly even bordering asb. Shame really, a united church being a church and not a political player would be awesome.
 
Interestingly, one predecessor to Luther and Calvin was in *Italy*. There is a local, small native Prostestant church (who however adopted later some.. lutherian, calvinist or presbyterian ideas, not sure) who is still alive now, I heard.

maybe this is a POD... have this be a start of a local revolt against the Vatican, maybe, and-or adopted by nobles...

I think you're talking about the Waldenses, who were indeed pre-Luther reformists (or heretics, depending on your POV) in Italy, and who survive down to the present day.

I don't have enough knowledge of medieval Italian history to judge whether they could become successful enough to provoke an *Reformation in Italy itself.
 
Let's remember what the true catalyst for the Reformation was. It wasn't really the ideas of Luther, Calvin, and other reformers. They weren't really THAT new and the discontent with the Catholic church was just as high in the centuries prior as in the 16th. The real catalyst for the Reformation IMO was the advent of the printing press and the growth of literacy. Remove or delay that critical invention (TIME rightly calls it the invention of the millennia IMO) and you remove or delay the Reformation, or at least the reformation as we know it.

By the same logic then, an earlier Printing Press/Paper supply and the subsequent ramifications would lead to an earlier Reformation. What if said reformation occurred during the Catholic Church's "Babylonian Exile"? You could have the Pope in Rome adopt a reformist stance in order to regain legitimacy from the anti-pope in Avignon.

Thoughts?
 
Interesting idea.

Just one thought, Luther had never intended to be a focus for controversy, he had no intention of starting any reform movement.

Second point, there were a number of issues that many Catholics were unhappy with in various parts of Catholic Europe. Sale of Indulgencies.

Another grievance - backed by widespread fear, concerned the Ottoman advances into Europe.

What if Luther is politically motivated, what if he has a more coherent and bigger ambition than simply a debate abouthis 95 thesis.

What if he exploits fear of the Ottomans, and calls for volunteers to fight them, a bit of a Protestant crusade, so using it to rally feeling, sentiment
and eventually loyaltys behind Protestantism. He can use this to counterpose Protestantism against Catholicism, as the defender of Christianity. Possibly this becomes such a wide spread movement that the Pope is forced to make concessions. So this is like a united front against the Ottomans in which Protestant Princes achieve a morale leadership of the chuch.

Im struggling to explain what i mean. :(
 
I think you're talking about the Waldenses, who were indeed pre-Luther reformists (or heretics, depending on your POV) in Italy, and who survive down to the present day.

I don't have enough knowledge of medieval Italian history to judge whether they could become successful enough to provoke an *Reformation in Italy itself.

Wikipedia seems indeed to point at time... they seemed minor, but what if a growing discontent rised in all of Italia about the general mess, and wanted neitheir emperor nor pope anymore?
 
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