Could the Qin Dynasty still exist today

The Qin Dynasty, which was founded by Qin Shi Huang Di, could somehow sustain itself and be able to continue existing to this day?
 

Skallagrim

Banned
The Qin Dynasty, which was founded by Qin Shi Huang Di, could somehow sustain itself and be able to continue existing to this day?

The first thing would be to have the Qin drop their harsh legalist policies as soon as they get their empire in order. And I mean at once. Qin Shi Huangdi himself is going to have to reform his policies to make them less draconic. His failure to do so led to far too much opposition. So one generation later is already too late. If this can be achieved, a lot of reasons for OTL opposition to Qin rule will largely disappear. The Han dynasty never emerges, and the Qin empire continues. This is needed just to get to a place where "lasting Qin dynasty" is even possible.

Now, given that premise, how realistic is it for a an imperial dynasty originating in 221 BC to keep existing for 2238 years? Well, it's not the most likely course of events! But then again, considering that the imperial family of Japan has been there for at least the past 1500 years, a very long-existing dynasty cannot be ruled out as ASB. On the other hand, China is not Japan. The latter one had the advantage of relative isolation, whereas the former was far more 'in the thick of it' when it came to invasions etc. -- And also, China was a vast empire, and those are just very likely to break up from time to time. In fact, keeping China together without any periods of division seems much harder to me than 'simply' preserving a dynasty.

The trick would be to keep the inevitable periods of division more like the Spring and Autumn Period (or, perhaps more fittingly, like the Tokugawa era of Japan). That is: the ruling dynasty stays in charge formally, but has little to no actual power. The emperor is a chiefly ceremonial figure, and removing him would actually be detrimental to the legitimacy of whoever is really in charge at any given time. If you can achieve that situation, you can maintain an unbroken dynasty of emperors, even through periods of near-complete division.
 
Absolutely not.Dynasties have been removed even before the Qin.There is absolutely no belief whatsoever that the emperor is divine.In fact,if left as a puppet,the emperor would be a liability because people can easily raise rebellions in the name of ‘saving’ the emperor.
 
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Various branches of the Capet family ruled France for nearly a 1000 years, the Ruriks ruled Russia for about 800 years.

Given Chinese Emperors practiced polygamy, there,s a good chance that the dynasty would never simply die out

It would take much skill to keep a dynasty going for 3000 years but possible. A free enterprise economy and constantly updated skills in warfare might do the trick
 

Maoistic

Banned
No Chinese dynasty in history lasted more than a number of centuries. Qin Shi Huang could have made his dynasty last longer and more stable by focusing on expansionism or building a strong military for social control instead of engaging with Daoist priests in search of immortality. Even then, it would eventually be overthrown once unrest builds up and revolts and uprisings by nobles, local rulers or peasants ensue. Monarchical autocratic rule with slave-feudal characteristics are by nature unstable, which is why they never manage to last that long.
 
The first thing would be to have the Qin drop their harsh legalist policies as soon as they get their empire in order. And I mean at once. Qin Shi Huangdi himself is going to have to reform his policies to make them less draconic. His failure to do so led to far too much opposition. So one generation later is already too late. If this can be achieved, a lot of reasons for OTL opposition to Qin rule will largely disappear. The Han dynasty never emerges, and the Qin empire continues. This is needed just to get to a place where "lasting Qin dynasty" is even possible.

Now, given that premise, how realistic is it for a an imperial dynasty originating in 221 BC to keep existing for 2238 years? Well, it's not the most likely course of events! But then again, considering that the imperial family of Japan has been there for at least the past 1500 years, a very long-existing dynasty cannot be ruled out as ASB. On the other hand, China is not Japan. The latter one had the advantage of relative isolation, whereas the former was far more 'in the thick of it' when it came to invasions etc. -- And also, China was a vast empire, and those are just very likely to break up from time to time. In fact, keeping China together without any periods of division seems much harder to me than 'simply' preserving a dynasty.

The trick would be to keep the inevitable periods of division more like the Spring and Autumn Period (or, perhaps more fittingly, like the Tokugawa era of Japan). That is: the ruling dynasty stays in charge formally, but has little to no actual power. The emperor is a chiefly ceremonial figure, and removing him would actually be detrimental to the legitimacy of whoever is really in charge at any given time. If you can achieve that situation, you can maintain an unbroken dynasty of emperors, even through periods of near-complete division.
thanks, I'm writing a story that has this as a premise and was looking for ways to explain how

I am from Brazil
 
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Kaze

Banned
Probably not. His immediate successor was incompetent - so incompetent that a minor rebellion ushered in the Han Dynasty.
 
Maybe the Qin Emperor becomes a figurehead at various times in history? I still have a hard time seeing it.

obrigado, eu estou escrevendo uma história que tem isso como premissa e estava procurando por maneiras de explicar como

Eu penso AH.com é apenas inglês.
 
Honestly, it would be easier in my mind to see the Han Dynasty existing to the present day, since it lasted far longer than the Qin and didn't exactly go down quietly, even after it was technically overthrown.
 
The Zhou lasted 700-ish years, and the Shang before them for 600, so there's precedent for long-lived dynasties in China.
 
Well, IIRC Qin Shi Huang's originally chosen successor was killed in suspicious circumstances.
Qin Shihuang's ministers forged his will which commanded his eldest son (whom he groomed as his successor) to commit suicide after his death. The second son was a complete imbecile who was so easily manipulated by his ministers that they made him call a deer, a horse.

As for the OP's question, I'm surprised no one has mentioned Japan's Chrysanthemum Throne. It's long-lasting *because* for most of the time the Emperor was a powerless figurehead.
 
Qin Shihuang's ministers forged his will which commanded his eldest son (whom he groomed as his successor) to commit suicide after his death. The second son was a complete imbecile who was so easily manipulated by his ministers that they made him call a deer, a horse.

As for the OP's question, I'm surprised no one has mentioned Japan's Chrysanthemum Throne. It's long-lasting *because* for most of the time the Emperor was a powerless figurehead.

I kind of mentioned that as a possibility.
 
The Zhou lasted 700-ish years, and the Shang before them for 600, so there's precedent for long-lived dynasties in China.
As feudal entities yes,but not as any centralized government.As soon as any power is strong enough,they will take out the emperor.
 
Honestly, it would be easier in my mind to see the Han Dynasty existing to the present day, since it lasted far longer than the Qin and didn't exactly go down quietly, even after it was technically overthrown.
Actually,I think the Song Dynasty had the best chance of survival if not for the fact that they repressed the military.Out of all the dynasties,it was the only one that managed to find a way to avoid large scale peasant uprisings and was much wealthier than other dynasties.
 

Kaze

Banned
I do agree with you that the Song had a better chance of survival. But I disagree with your statement that it managed to avoid peasant uprisings - there were two. The first was under Wang Ze, a Buddhist nutcase who thought himself the Maitreya - thousands died in its suppression. The second is the outlaws of Mount Liang (Liangshan Marsh) made famous by the legend of the "Water Margin" (108 stars/ Outlaws of the Marsh) it was a sizable army that caused chaos until it was granted amnesty by the government and sent on campaigns to resist foreign invaders and suppress rebel forces. However these two blips on the Song record was because the military had already began to decline.
 
I do agree with you that the Song had a better chance of survival. But I disagree with your statement that it managed to avoid peasant uprisings - there were two. The first was under Wang Ze, a Buddhist nutcase who thought himself the Maitreya - thousands died in its suppression. The second is the outlaws of Mount Liang (Liangshan Marsh) made famous by the legend of the "Water Margin" (108 stars/ Outlaws of the Marsh) it was a sizable army that caused chaos until it was granted amnesty by the government and sent on campaigns to resist foreign invaders and suppress rebel forces. However these two blips on the Song record was because the military had already began to decline.
I said ‘large scale’ peasant uprisings.Those two uprisings were never of any sizeable scale.And unlike the novel,they were easily suppressed by the fairly weak Song army.Song Jiang and his rebels were wiped out by the Song general Zhang Shuye.They never went on to resist foreign invaders or suppress rebel forces.
 
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Only way I could see this happening is whoever overthrows the Qin and establishes a new dynasty decides not to rename the country.
 
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