Was it possible for the kaiserreich to return to Germany either during the Weimar or Nazi leadership?
Could the kaiserreich have been reinstated?
Frankly I am rather surprised at the British not defending the institution of monarchy more forcefully, their notion of democracy is a Parliament working under the unifying Peerage capped by the King, a republic was not how they viewed good governance, that was the French and American notion of things. In light of the disaster in Russia I especially think the conservatives would clamor for a less revolutionary change in German institutions, strengthen the Diet, reaffirm the federalism, weaken the monarch to more of a cultural and moral authority, choose a different family with better ties to the British and a more liberal outlook. All these things weaken the Prussian hold over Germany and align Germany with the British way. anyone should have seen that with the collapse of the Hapsburgs, the death of the Romanovs and now the striping away of the only remaining big monarchy, the very question of British monarchy as been relegated to anachronism, it surely opens the doors to both leftist challenge at home and throughout the Empire, Kings are dead, the people now rule. But that is my own WTF for the British.
Legally the Kaiser and Crown Prince abdicated, so they cannot be restored as other monarchs had been, even in the UK. So legally one would need to choose the would be Wilhelm IV or elevate another former German Kingdom to pride of place, but each Kingdom was in turn destroyed. A really left field option is for Austria to annex Germany, and that puts a Hapsburg on the united German throne, now symbolic but the real question is how do you get the Reichstag to rule? Germany had too fractured of a democracy and fell under the expedient of Presidential rule, not uncommon even in the best of democracies, the executive acts, the legislature debates, an even more disgruntling thing in orderly Germany. Part of me hinks the President was kept simply because everyone wanted someone to get things done and no monarch could be trusted. So I think you need the victorious allies building a better Reichstag with improved chances to function and set roots for representing the people and governing Germany, a task I fear they are not up to, the record of nation building for them is rather bad, ironically Germany and Japan are the best reboots.
Have more executive power in a Chancellor who is nominated by the Kaiser, but ratified by the Reichstag, putting the majority party or coalition in power, the state secretaries cannot be serving members, this is quasi-presidential executive subject to the same oversight by the legislative familiar to Americans, put all big budget and constitutional reforms under the Bundestag ratification, especially the power to declare war, the rest of internal and foreign relations is debated in committees in the lower house, the Chancellor can govern but he needs legislation from a friendly Reichstag to rule, he is symbolically the voice of the nation, the Kaiser is head of state, but in fact is the leashed executive head of government. A compromise between the British and American political theorists that might it the existing institutions, preserve the veneer of order but allow for the chaos in the democracy now elevated to actually have power. Wilson was a very shitty political scientist and mediocre historian.
Legally the Kaiser and Crown Prince abdicated, so they cannot be restored as other monarchs had been, even in the UK. So legally one would need to choose the would be Wilhelm IV or elevate another former German Kingdom to pride of place, but each Kingdom was in turn destroyed. A really left field option is for Austria to annex Germany, and that puts a Hapsburg on the united German throne, now symbolic but the real question is how do you get the Reichstag to rule? Germany had too fractured of a democracy and fell under the expedient of Presidential rule, not uncommon even in the best of democracies, the executive acts, the legislature debates, an even more disgruntling thing in orderly Germany. Part of me hinks the President was kept simply because everyone wanted someone to get things done and no monarch could be trusted. So I think you need the victorious allies building a better Reichstag with improved chances to function and set roots for representing the people and governing Germany, a task I fear they are not up to, the record of nation building for them is rather bad, ironically Germany and Japan are the best reboots.
Have more executive power in a Chancellor who is nominated by the Kaiser, but ratified by the Reichstag, putting the majority party or coalition in power, the state secretaries cannot be serving members, this is quasi-presidential executive subject to the same oversight by the legislative familiar to Americans, put all big budget and constitutional reforms under the Bundestag ratification, especially the power to declare war, the rest of internal and foreign relations is debated in committees in the lower house, the Chancellor can govern but he needs legislation from a friendly Reichstag to rule, he is symbolically the voice of the nation, the Kaiser is head of state, but in fact is the leashed executive head of government. A compromise between the British and American political theorists that might it the existing institutions, preserve the veneer of order but allow for the chaos in the democracy now elevated to actually have power. Wilson was a very shitty political scientist and mediocre historian.
Well he was a rather shitty human too but in American canon he is the guy who won WWI. Sherlock Holmes is a fictional character who sadly cannot help us with giving Wilson any better luck finding his way.
In the scenario of a successfull coup against the Nazis the conspirators planned to reinstate the Hohenzollern. Before 1940 they wanted to reinstate Wilhelm von Preußen an after his death his younger brother Louis Ferdinand.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Wilhelm_of_Prussia_(1906–1940)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Ferdinand,_Prince_of_Prussia
I could also see a DNVP-Zentrum Junta reinstating the Hohenzollern if the Nazis never come to power.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Wilhelm_of_Prussia_(1906–1940)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Ferdinand,_Prince_of_Prussia
I could also see a DNVP-Zentrum Junta reinstating the Hohenzollern if the Nazis never come to power.
Some form of restoration of a monarchy is possible if Weimar develops into an nationalistic authoritarian (but not national-socialistic) regime.
There are various difficulties which explain why it didn't happen in OTL. But there are enough monarchists and ultra-conservatives around.
The new emperor needs to come from the House of Hohenzollern. (I don't know why some people from time to time suggest a catholic Bavarian from the House of Wittelsbach as a new monarch in these scenarios). I doubt that Hindenburg as a ultra-conservative monarchists wants to become monarch himself, that would be against is own concept of honor.
Another solution is the Hungarian monarchy in the interwar era. As long as it is impossible to find or agree on the monarch declare yourself a monarchy and establish the office of a "Reichsverweser" or "Reichsvikar" (if you want to follow the tradition of the Holy Roman Empire), like Horthy was regent of Hungary.
A democratic restoration of the Monarchy is impossible. You could except strong resistance from the Social Democrats and everyone on the left of them, while the left-wing liberals (DDP) probably would fear the loss of democracy and the Zentrum fears again to much protestant dominance (since the new monarch is likely a protestant). It is difficult to have a democratic majority in such a referendum against KPD, SPD, DDP and Zentrum. Such a referendum would lead to enormous instability.
But we don't need to follow the democratic process. On of the earliest PODs is a successful Kapp-Putsch (some ultra-conservatives tried to replace democracy in 1920 but failed). Or we could use late Weimar and the powers of the president. A ultraconservative, monarchist president who has a lot of power and popularity (like Hindenburg) could replace the democratic system with a monarchy over time.
This becomes far more difficult during the Nazi regime. Of course if various conservative plots against the Nazis succeed and if their new government manages to make peace while maintaining their proposed governement it is not entirely impossible. But far more difficult than during Weimar.
Such a restored Monarchy wouldn't be the same as the Kaiserreich. You need to restore the various kings, grand-dukes and princes of the different states and the entire constitution of the Kaiserreich. This is far less likely than the restoration of a monarch as a puppet of a conservative-nationalistic regime and would create far more resistance.
There are various difficulties which explain why it didn't happen in OTL. But there are enough monarchists and ultra-conservatives around.
The new emperor needs to come from the House of Hohenzollern. (I don't know why some people from time to time suggest a catholic Bavarian from the House of Wittelsbach as a new monarch in these scenarios). I doubt that Hindenburg as a ultra-conservative monarchists wants to become monarch himself, that would be against is own concept of honor.
Another solution is the Hungarian monarchy in the interwar era. As long as it is impossible to find or agree on the monarch declare yourself a monarchy and establish the office of a "Reichsverweser" or "Reichsvikar" (if you want to follow the tradition of the Holy Roman Empire), like Horthy was regent of Hungary.
A democratic restoration of the Monarchy is impossible. You could except strong resistance from the Social Democrats and everyone on the left of them, while the left-wing liberals (DDP) probably would fear the loss of democracy and the Zentrum fears again to much protestant dominance (since the new monarch is likely a protestant). It is difficult to have a democratic majority in such a referendum against KPD, SPD, DDP and Zentrum. Such a referendum would lead to enormous instability.
But we don't need to follow the democratic process. On of the earliest PODs is a successful Kapp-Putsch (some ultra-conservatives tried to replace democracy in 1920 but failed). Or we could use late Weimar and the powers of the president. A ultraconservative, monarchist president who has a lot of power and popularity (like Hindenburg) could replace the democratic system with a monarchy over time.
This becomes far more difficult during the Nazi regime. Of course if various conservative plots against the Nazis succeed and if their new government manages to make peace while maintaining their proposed governement it is not entirely impossible. But far more difficult than during Weimar.
Such a restored Monarchy wouldn't be the same as the Kaiserreich. You need to restore the various kings, grand-dukes and princes of the different states and the entire constitution of the Kaiserreich. This is far less likely than the restoration of a monarch as a puppet of a conservative-nationalistic regime and would create far more resistance.
Hitler dies before WW2. Goering emerges as leader. He avoids war, rules for life as a dictator, and names a Hohenzollern successor, rather like Franco in Spain.
Perkeo
Banned
Wasn’t Franco’s Spain that sort of thing: an old Monarchy restored under a new right wing dictatorship?
kernals12
Banned
The question I was replying to was whether a new monarchy could be established. Spain brought back an old one.
Because the current claimant was more popular than the Hohenzollerns at the time, at least in Bavaria. So how about this- what if instead of restoring the Kaiserreich, German monarchy is restored via an Austrian-type devolution into a multi-headed monarchy, with the stronger/more popular princes, such as in Bavaria, becoming the leaders of this multi-headed monarchy?
Which makes Rupprecht the perfect candidate to rule over a restored monarchy in Bavaria and maybe an important role in internal power struggles, but not the leader of Germany.
Integrating him, and gaining his support maybe helpful to gain the support of Bavaria and the support of Catholics.
Some kind of multi-headed monarchy between several kingdoms is difficult as long as 60% of population and area of the German Empire consists of Prussia (like in OTL). As long as Prussia is a monarchy, the monarch of Prussia would almost automatically assume or claim the title of emperor. (maybe some exception somewhere is under some really special circumstances possible)
It is possible to dissolve Prussia into multiple states (for example restoring the Kingdom of Hannover) but really complicated (there were several ideas of dividing Prussia in OTL Weimar but failed). Dividing Prussia is maybe not the first priority of a new reactionary government, as long as ultraconservative, protestant Prussian military elites maintain an important position.
Another option for a multi-headed monarchy would be to enlarge Germany. (For example making the Netherlands a kingdom inside a even more decentralized German Empire). But that would require to change WW1, and is impossible afterwards (except a Nazi victory in WW2, which makes a restoration of any federalized monarchy unlikely)
A more loosely federated Germany, where multiple monarchs dominate entirely over a weak executive, would seem far more like the German Confederation than the Kaiserreich. Most nationalists and conservatives (except some people in Bavaria or Hannover) wouldn't support such a move, which would basically try to restore the situation before 1866.
Exhibit 512b that the military conspirators were complete idiots who would have never gotten anywhere even if they had killed Hitler.