Could the German Monarchy survive a lost war?

Nicole

Recently, I looked into the events that caused the downfall of the German Empire after World War I. IIRC, it began when the sailors did not want to battle the British Navy after it looked clear that Germany had lost. Now, what if the Kaiser or whoever was in charage decided that they could not beat the Allies alone (At least, I think A-H and the Ottoman Empire were lost cases by then...) and decided to recall the troops home and admit defeat. The troops can then be used to mop up any attempt at a "Worker's Revolution" or whatever... (Assuming they stay loyal)
What kind of peace terms would be put upon this German Empire? I'm looking at something similair to OTL, as I don't see much hope that these Germans can stop Versailles... If the Allies force Germany into signing it, Wilhelm may be forced to resign his titles, and his son, Wilhelm, would become Emperor (And King of Prussia).
I'm not sure where to go from there, and I'm not sure if what I'm writing is completely implausible and would never happen even if the Third Cousin of All ASBs were to show up..
 

Arch-Angel

I believe so, Im pondering a timeline where Imperial Germany, Royalist Britain, and some form of American Monarchy face off against the USSR/Comentern, Socialist Republican France and China (plus maybe spain). However Germany only has its modern day border plus Austria.
 

unsunghero

Imajin said:
Recently, I looked into the events that caused the downfall of the German Empire after World War I. IIRC, it began when the sailors did not want to battle the British Navy after it looked clear that Germany had lost. Now, what if the Kaiser or whoever was in charage decided that they could not beat the Allies alone (At least, I think A-H and the Ottoman Empire were lost cases by then...) and decided to recall the troops home and admit defeat. The troops can then be used to mop up any attempt at a "Worker's Revolution" or whatever... (Assuming they stay loyal)
What kind of peace terms would be put upon this German Empire? I'm looking at something similair to OTL, as I don't see much hope that these Germans can stop Versailles... If the Allies force Germany into signing it, Wilhelm may be forced to resign his titles, and his son, Wilhelm, would become Emperor (And King of Prussia).
I'm not sure where to go from there, and I'm not sure if what I'm writing is completely implausible and would never happen even if the Third Cousin of All ASBs were to show up..
Click to expand...

I think the powers - that - be would have to squash the mutiny in Kiel within a very short time (a few hours at the most) in order for as few people to find out about it as possible. It wasn't just the navy, but the city of Kiel that revolted, too. Personally I think that it will be almost impossible for Wilhelm to wrest control of the military awayfrom Luddendorf/Hindenburg - prior to the failure of the 1918 offensives, they were just too powerful. Abandoning everything outside the German border would not be highly looked upon by the military either, since they and the people at home had been told for four years they were winning. Can Wilhelm's son keep his royal prerogatives? I don't think so - he too is tarred w/the brush of 'militarism' and the failure of the war. In order for the monarchy to survive, you need to find a prince who cannot be pointed at by the communists or socialists as to blame for Germany's loss.
 
Grey Wolf

Grey Wolf

There was a period of a critical few weeks end of Oct 1918 and into November, where Wilhelm was being urged to abdicate but refused to do so. Had he done so, the monarchy had a chance of being preserved. The best chance would be for the Crown Prince to have stepped aside for his son, and for the young Wilhelm to have being proclaimed emperor with a regent, presumably one of his uncles - Eitel Friedrich or Adalbert maybe.

I think it POSSIBLE that the Crown Prince could have managed to stay on the throne however. He was not all the buffoon and militarist he is portrayed as being. Pre-war stances didn't really count for much, as the war will have swept aside the whole society and assumptions these were based on. Looking at the Crown Prince's wartime experiences, and his anguish over Verdun, you see a different side of the man, and a side that could have continued and prospered if his father had abdicated in time

Grey Wolf
 

unsunghero

If Crown Prince Wilhelm does manage to keep the throne, what does this mean for Germany in the short term? Any changes to Versailles? Is there still a 'Spartacus Uprising?' Is there still a real thirst for revenge against France/Britain/Poland/Russia?
 

Alayta

I thought about this aswell.
Several points have to be considered.

1. One of the declared kriegsziel (goal of war?) for the entente was democracy in germany. This would make it very hard to make a manarchy survive in germany.

2. The german nation was divided between monarchists and socialists long before the war. The underestimated ability of Bismarck to deal with internal affairs kept germany in line.

3. The Pod must be long before 1918 to make a constitutional monarchy like britain possible, more is not in.
 

Redbeard

Banned
Alayta said:
I thought about this aswell.
Several points have to be considered.

1. One of the declared kriegsziel (goal of war?) for the entente was democracy in germany. This would make it very hard to make a manarchy survive in germany.

2. The german nation was divided between monarchists and socialists long before the war. The underestimated ability of Bismarck to deal with internal affairs kept germany in line.

3. The Pod must be long before 1918 to make a constitutional monarchy like britain possible, more is not in.
Click to expand...

Ad. 1: The Entente never had anything resembling a republican cause, and monarchy goes just fine with democracy. I will even argue that some of the finest and most stable examples of democracies are also constitutional monarchies.

Ad. 2: The Socialdemocrats, who were close to taking over in 1914, had the republic as an official goal, but nowhere had any real problems with adapting to reality. In Scandinavia, where the Socialdemocrats were clones of the German ditto, they also advocated the Republic (until well after WWII), but had no trouble accepting a constitutional Monarchy as long as the parliament had the real power.

Ad. 3: By late 19th century I rate Germany as at least as democratic as the Scandinavian countries. In Denmark parliamentarism wasn't established until early 20th century and was seriously challenged as late as 1920. The most aspect about the time of the PoD is that it has to be before the worst slaughtering and defeat of WWI. But even then I think Grey Wolf's idea of an earlier abdication of Wilhelm might have worked.

Regards

Steffen Redbeard
 
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