Could the Byzantine Empire turn into a Russian empire?

So, first of all, there are infinite possibilities of alt history scenarios, this post doesn't require to write a scenario, just to think of how could it develop

This scenario also means that many butterflies will be slaughtered, sorry :S

Well, it all started when I readed this TL, that run between 1066 and 194-something, and something interesting is that while Russia became independent and almost as strong as OTL, the byzantine empire replaced the Russian empire as the main orthodox country, here is a map of the world by 1850:

world-1850.png

At this time, the byzantine empire was a centralized absolute monarchy, with the orthodoxy being the state religion, had a population of about 160 million people and was hellenizing his territories, just like Russia russificate them

but in the following years, during a war against germany and other states the byzantine state fell into civil war and turned into the communist union of rome:

world-hoi2.png

It is the Red state on italy, balkans, Persia and Anatolia

What do you think? Would it possible for the byzantines to end like the Russians?
 
Whilst I appreciate any Paradox-based map, that border-gore is horrifying.

But to the point at hand - Honestly, yes. If you had a Roman Empire that was still a major power in the 1300s rather than a minor regional one, I think it would have had to have developed a Steppe policy - simply because it'd be interested in the resources and farmlands in the Ukraine.

That would inevitably lead into conflict with the Russian principalities, including Moscovy. If that clash leads to stalemates, its about 50:50, with maybe a slight edge for the Romans if they can develop their own Cossacks to dominate the region. (In fact, that may be the key factor, and may lead to an independent Cossack-style nation in S.Russia).

However, if that clash is deal with diplomatically (as the Romans at this point were wont to do), and there was a fortuitous marriage, the Romans could potentially bring the Rus into the Roman Empire. Which changes EVERYTHING.

Alternatively, you could see a clash between the Moscovites and the Romans lead to a defeat for the Moscovites, and a Pyrrhic victory for the Romans, which would likely leave Novgorod in the right place to dominate the other Russian states, which makes the Russians decidely more of a Baltic state than a Steppe state, which could simply leave the door wide open for the Romans to expand into the Steppe - which would in many ways be to their advantage. Controlling the steppe with Cossacks that can form an impressive force can be directed into Central Asia to wreak havoc if there is ever a war with a Persia-based power. The Ukraine would give the Romans a new breadbasket for the Empire to lean on and not lose a fortune in bullion to grain imports, and could lead to a whole new recruiting ground for Roman-Ukrainians - which would certainly help in any war in Europe and in the Middle East.

Quite simply, Nerf Moscovy, and Keep the Romans alive, and I can see a Baltic Russian state, and a Roman Empire on the Steppe.
 
If the Byzantines survive, there wouldn't be any "Communism", and in the length of time between a "Byzantines Survive" scenario and the Second Age of Revolutions, a lot could happen, and a lot could change. AH just gets kinda fuzzy after a few hundred years.
 
If the ERE doesn't absorb the Rus' through marriage I have a feeling it won't do so through conquest. The thing about the ERE is that it took a very backwards mindset to the northern regions, still calling them Scythia when the Scythians were long gone, for example. Could this change, given their survival? Probably, but I suspect that they would rather treat with the northerners instead of conquering them.

Now, what I can see happening is the alt-inhabitants of Ukraine falling into a vassal status to the ERE. The latter probably controls Crimea directly and then holds influence over Kiev, especially if Kievan Rus' is still ravaged by Mongols. The Ukraine would probably become a point of contention between the dominant northern Russian state and the ERE
 
If the ERE doesn't absorb the Rus' through marriage I have a feeling it won't do so through conquest. The thing about the ERE is that it took a very backwards mindset to the northern regions, still calling them Scythia when the Scythians were long gone, for example. Could this change, given their survival? Probably, but I suspect that they would rather treat with the northerners instead of conquering them.

Now, what I can see happening is the alt-inhabitants of Ukraine falling into a vassal status to the ERE. The latter probably controls Crimea directly and then holds influence over Kiev, especially if Kievan Rus' is still ravaged by Mongols. The Ukraine would probably become a point of contention between the dominant northern Russian state and the ERE

Did the Romans really call Russia Scythia? I expect it of S.Russia, but I would have expecting something like Russia, or Varangia perhaps.

I think regarding Kiev specifically, that it'd almost have to be a Roman city for a Roman "Russia" to work. Its essentially the Northern Fortress. Anything further north is prohibative, and unless I'm misreading Google Earth, basically is the start of the 'Northern Forests' for ignorance of a better term. Any further north and the Romans couldn't get away with Cossacks, but may well need large standing armies - which would be prohibitive. The lands south of Kiev and west of Dnieper (and east of any other border) would probably be directly controlled, with the lands west of the Dneiper under Cossacks rule, with those easily farmed areas under the protection of Hippo-Dynatoi (forgive the horrifying abuse of linguistics there please), and the rest of the steppe under more... wild HDs
 
If the Byzantines survive, there wouldn't be any "Communism", and in the length of time between a "Byzantines Survive" scenario and the Second Age of Revolutions, a lot could happen

A lot could happen, even the rise of communism, with another name tough, but similar ideals

The Byzantine empire would have to industrialize, if they remained as a despotic autocracy this would create social tensions. In this AAR in special the bubble burst after the Byzantines had to fight a long war against german, and after a long war the revolution exploded and the germans sponsored the reds until they marched on constantinople and made the union of Rome
 

Deleted member 97083

Was this a Crusader Kings 1 - EU2 - Victoria 1 - HOI2 megacampaign?
 
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