the Caucasus has more than 50 languages with three indigenous families(Northeast, Northwest, and Kartivelian), Iranians (Ossetians, Tats, Taylsh, Kurds), its own group of Indo-European(Armenian), and non-indigenous groups such as Turks, Russians, Azerbaijanis, etc. What could make the Alps become a second Caucasus with three indigenous languages, Celts, its own Indo -European group and a couple non indigenous languages?
Could the Alps become a second Caucasus?
- Thread starter Lothal
- Start date
I thinks it just too much in the center of things. Maybe some weird old Celtic tribes up there, but not much more than that.
Alex Richards
Donor
The Caucasus is so diverse because it lies at once at the crossroads and the fringes of many historical trade routes. You've got continual population migrations bringing new languages and religions in, and trade routes supplementing that further, while at the same time being remote and out of the way enough that few of these waves were large enough to entirely displace previous population groups on a widespread basis.
The Alps really are just too much in the middle of Europe.
The Alps really are just too much in the middle of Europe.
Well actually in the Alps today there are German (both standard and Swiss), French, Italian, Romansch and (to some degree) Francoprovençal spoken. It doesn't have its own Indo-European group, but that's a lot of linguistic diversity nonetheless.
Thing is, there aren't isolates but in the direct continuation of the language they're part of.
German valleys are directly next to Germanic speaking regions, while almost each Caucasus valley have its own language or dialect, even if related or the same than a neighbouring one.
German valleys are directly next to Germanic speaking regions, while almost each Caucasus valley have its own language or dialect, even if related or the same than a neighbouring one.
True, but the only odd ball is Romansch. the Caucasus is filled with linguistic weirdness. the Northern Caucasian languages only have 2 or 3 vowels at most but have gigantic amounts of consonants(over 60).
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I think you mean "consonant"- I'm fairly confident most languages have over 60 nouns as well.
Might be a bit easier than you think.
You're asking for:
An isolate: Have a Pre-Indo-European language (like Basque in France/Spain) survive
Celtic languages: Spoken in this language historically; just have less influence from the Germanic and Romance speakers
Non-local Indo-European families: Germanic and Romance, as IOTL
Slightly harder are the "local" Indo-European and 3 indigenous families. I'd say the easiest way to get the three indigenous would be in a similar sense to getting the isolate, but given the lack of knowledge about Pre-Indo-European languages in general, and the different sort of dynamics that would occur in the region as a result, anything that would yield these would probably butterfly something else in the region. As for the local Indo-European family; well, nothing's stopping it, per se, but I don't know what sort of PoD you would need to get that.
You're asking for:
An isolate: Have a Pre-Indo-European language (like Basque in France/Spain) survive
Celtic languages: Spoken in this language historically; just have less influence from the Germanic and Romance speakers
Non-local Indo-European families: Germanic and Romance, as IOTL
Slightly harder are the "local" Indo-European and 3 indigenous families. I'd say the easiest way to get the three indigenous would be in a similar sense to getting the isolate, but given the lack of knowledge about Pre-Indo-European languages in general, and the different sort of dynamics that would occur in the region as a result, anything that would yield these would probably butterfly something else in the region. As for the local Indo-European family; well, nothing's stopping it, per se, but I don't know what sort of PoD you would need to get that.
Nobody seems to know what Rhaetic language was. There IS evidence - a small corpus of inscriptions - which present a confusing mixture of elements - Etruscan, Indo-European or other.
Credible theories:
1) A relative of Etruscan language, with Indo-European influence
2) An independent branch of Indo-European family, intermediate between Celtic and Illyrian
3) A language isolate.
Credible theories:
1) A relative of Etruscan language, with Indo-European influence
2) An independent branch of Indo-European family, intermediate between Celtic and Illyrian
3) A language isolate.
IIRC, the most common view is that Rhetic is somewhat related to Etruscan. The fact that the genealogical position of Etruscan itself is less than clear doesn't help (some claim that Etruscan may be a divergent branch of Indo-European, although I don't think there is any consensus about that).
However, I'd add that the Alps also have Slavic (Slovenian) languages, including a couple a fairly diverging Slovenian vernaculars.
Might it simply be that the Alps aren't as impassable as the Caucasus?
I mean, the HRE and Roman Empire both held multiple sides of the Alps, and held various amounts of sway over the interior mountain regions. The Caucasus, from what I know, seems to have often been a block on a nation expanding any further in that direction.
I mean, the HRE and Roman Empire both held multiple sides of the Alps, and held various amounts of sway over the interior mountain regions. The Caucasus, from what I know, seems to have often been a block on a nation expanding any further in that direction.