Could the 3rd Estate take power in 1358?

In the aftermath of the battle of Poitiers the French nobility was at it's weakest point. Could the reformer Charles of Navarre take power? Or would The Dauphin survive and men like Etienne Marcel and Robert le Coq take greater powers.

I think the key would be to ensure the Jaqueries never get their revolution started. After they began killing nobles any support the Reformers did have was destroyed.

These were the demands of the Bourgeois:

  • Dismissal of the seven royal councillors who were the most corrupt and their properties confiscated.
  • In their place a Council of 28 consisting of 12 nobles 12 bourgeois and 4 clerics, to be appointed by the Estates General.
  • That the Estates General could call itself to meeting with out the permission of the King.
  • The King could hold no tax that the Estates did not approve of.
Even with these demands met, France would still be in big trouble with no King. The Free Companies of brigands would still probably end up ravaging the country. Perhaps if King Jean and his son are killed off at the Battle of Poiters Charles of Navarre could come to power quickly and reform the state.

What PODS can you guys think of for this?
 
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Can't think of a POD, but this would mean the maintenance of the French limited monarchy and could well butterfly introduction of same in England.
 
Tobit said:
Could the reformer Charles of Navarre take power?

Probably not, unless in the case you mention at the end of your post (see what I said on that below). If not, it would be going agaisnt Salic Law, which would cause the reigns of Philip V, Charles IV, Philip VI and John II to be considered as usurpers. One king could go, but four not really.

Plus, both the Valois and the English would oppose this decision. And lastly, Charles II of Navarra wasn't popular. Remember : he earned his nickname "the Bad" because of numerous treasons.

Tobit said:
Or would The Dauphin survive and men like Etienne Marcel and Robert le Coq take greater powers.

The Dauphin was OTL Charles V of France and a quite competent man. Don't think he would relinquish power to Etienne Marcel that easily. As a matter of fact, he didn't OTL.

Tobit said:
Perhaps if King Jean and his son are killed off at the Battle of Poiters Charles of Navarre could come to power quickly and reform the state.

I think Charles II of Navarra would ironically become the heir to the French crown in this situation according to Salic Law. Without John II and his four sons, the Valois would be extinct in the males if memory serves me right and the next house would be the House of Evreux-Navarre, thus Charles II the Bad... This would strengthen his claim against Edward III as he would be heir of the French crown via Salic Law through his father (Philip of Ereux) and without it through his mother (Joan of Navarra).

Not sure Charles II of Navarra would have the strength to take power though. If King John II and his four sons are killed, then the English are in a very strong position while the French are at their weakest.
 
I think Charles II of Navarra would ironically become the heir to the French crown in this situation according to Salic Law. Without John II and his four sons, the Valois would be extinct in the males if memory serves me right and the next house would be the House of Evreux-Navarre, thus Charles II the Bad... This would strengthen his claim against Edward III as he would be heir of the French crown via Salic Law through his father (Philip of Ereux) and without it through his mother (Joan of Navarra).

Not sure Charles II of Navarra would have the strength to take power though. If King John II and his four sons are killed, then the English are in a very strong position while the French are at their weakest.

You bring up good points.

I wonder if even though the English claim would be strengthened that French patriotism would not stand for an English king. Charles the Bad in OTL did achieve quite a bit of popularity in Paris. If he could restrain the Jaqueries, then perhaps the rest of the French nobility would line up behind him. He could have been the moderate between the Third Estate and the others.

I think he would also grant more powers to the Third Estate in the long run. I like the idea of a French Magna Carta. :)
 
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