Could Praetorian Prefectures Have Been Established Under Augustus?

I was thinking about this for my Roman timeline. Could Augustus feasibly have established something similar to the praetorian prefectures that Diocletian created? Adding on to that, could he have also established the equivalent of Dioces? I was thinking something around the time of when he gets granted his giant imperial "province" he decides on some reorganization....
 
No. Augustus would not have been able to establish anything that sweeping because his primary concern was dressingb up his üpower in the costuime of Republican respectability. In practice, he could very well have been able to push through such changes in the provinces (the leges provinciarum have republican origins, and Sulla effectively reorganised the entire East on his way through), but he could not allow himself to be seen doing it in Rome.

Augustus's success depends on his ability to pretend things have not really chganged all that much (except for his presence as divinely appointed saviour, of course). He needed to keep the idea alive that administration of the provinces was within the Senate's gift (pretorian prefectures would have interfered very obviously, whereas his 'temporary' imperium through deputies technically fulfilled the criteria) and that the friends, allies and subjects of the Roman people were free sovereign states (which, again, the pretorian prefectures would have made a mockery of).

Then there is the question who the pretorian prefects would be answerable to, and on what authority. You have to remember Augustus was not an emperor - emperor was what the specific niche Augustus created for himself ultimately became. But for a century after him, Roman emperors largely played along with the facade of republican institutions even in substance, and for good reason - the senate might not have been the powerhouse it was in the Late Republic, but its members still wielded substantial power. THe third century is not like the first.
 
Technically, he could have divided the Roman Empire with his allies. Which is what he actually DID, with Anthony, Lepidus and tried to include Sextus Pompeius.

But after he got rid of these allies, his leading supporters like Agrippa, Maecenas and Marcellus remained in central government and were not given regional assignments.
 
Technically, he could have divided the Roman Empire with his allies. Which is what he actually DID, with Anthony, Lepidus and tried to include Sextus Pompeius.

But after he got rid of these allies, his leading supporters like Agrippa, Maecenas and Marcellus remained in central government and were not given regional assignments.

That's different, though. The triumvirs got provinces assigned by the Senate (a tame and intimidated senate, but still) and were not answerable to an imperial authority.

But yes, if Augustus had decided he could risk giving, say, all of Spain, Gaul and Africa to one of his allies, he could have done that by naming him a deputy. But that would not have been like the prefecture. It would just have been another extraordinary proconsular imperium.
 
No. Augustus would not have been able to establish anything that sweeping because his primary concern was dressingb up his üpower in the costuime of Republican respectability. In practice, he could very well have been able to push through such changes in the provinces (the leges provinciarum have republican origins, and Sulla effectively reorganised the entire East on his way through), but he could not allow himself to be seen doing it in Rome.

Augustus's success depends on his ability to pretend things have not really chganged all that much (except for his presence as divinely appointed saviour, of course). He needed to keep the idea alive that administration of the provinces was within the Senate's gift (pretorian prefectures would have interfered very obviously, whereas his 'temporary' imperium through deputies technically fulfilled the criteria) and that the friends, allies and subjects of the Roman people were free sovereign states (which, again, the pretorian prefectures would have made a mockery of).

Then there is the question who the pretorian prefects would be answerable to, and on what authority. You have to remember Augustus was not an emperor - emperor was what the specific niche Augustus created for himself ultimately became. But for a century after him, Roman emperors largely played along with the facade of republican institutions even in substance, and for good reason - the senate might not have been the powerhouse it was in the Late Republic, but its members still wielded substantial power. THe third century is not like the first.

I should clarify a bit more: I mean more in structure than in practice. i.e: provinces roughly the size of praetorian prefectures, subdivided into smaller administrative units roughly the size of the dioceses.
 
I should clarify a bit more: I mean more in structure than in practice. i.e: provinces roughly the size of praetorian prefectures, subdivided into smaller administrative units roughly the size of the dioceses.

Oh. I suppose he could, but he'd forever be looking over his shoulder. It would not be a good idea to produce a military basis for a potential competitor, and he couldn't give them all to relatives. Or maybe he could, actually.
 
Why do you think, the implementation of big praefecturae would be beneficial? Do you see advantages in military defensability or in civil administration?

And if you talk about dioceses. Do you mean an additional lean supervisory body like in late empire or do you want to replace the provinces by bigger dioceses; and why?

I guess Augustus could have done a lot, if he would have seen a good reason to do so. Of course he has to keep the illusion of a republic up. For example, if praefecturae are just for a better civil administration he could have implement correctores with a rather temporary character. And later emperors would then develop this system to permanent praefecturae. If you like to implement something like a Legatus Augusti per Oriens commanding all legions in Syria and Cappadocia and other asian provinces, this could have done anytime based on his imperium proconsulare. But you have to answer the question, how to avoid usurpation, if you have 3 big military leaders at Rhine, Danube and Euphrat.

Looking to dioceses, Augustus actually started to implement something like that, with the procuratores (finance). The territory of these procuratores was usually much bigger than a province, e.g. Gallia without Narbonensis, plus Belgica and Germania. This was surely beyond any republican tradition, but it was done, because Augustus saw a need to do it.

If you like to change the structure of the roman empire (military, civil or social), Augustus is the perfect time to start. But afterwards you have to wait 100-200 years, until this new structure fully develops.
 
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Why do you think, the implementation of big praefecturae would be beneficial? Do you see advantages in military defensability or in civil administration?

And if you talk about dioceses. Do you mean an additional lean supervisory body like in late empire or do you want to replace the provinces by bigger dioceses; and why?

I guess Augustus could have done a lot, if he would have seen a good reason to do so. Of course he has to keep the illusion of a republic up. For example, if praefecturae are just for a better civil administration he could have implement correctores with a rather temporary character. And later emperors would then develop this system to permanent praefecturae. If you like to implement something like a Legatus Augusti per Oriens commanding all legions in Syria and Cappadocia and other asian provinces, this could have done anytime based on his imperium proconsulare. But you have to answer the question, how to avoid usurpation, if you have 3 big military leaders at Rhine, Danube and Euphrat.

Looking to dioceses, Augustus actually started to implement something like that, with the procuratores (finance). The territory of these procuratores was usually much bigger than a province, e.g. Gallia without Narbonensis, plus Belgica and Germania. This was surely beyond any republican tradition, but it was done, because Augustus saw a need to do it.

If you like to change the structure of the roman empire (military, civil or social), Augustus is the perfect time to start. But afterwards you have to wait 100-200 years, until this new structure fully develops.

This is more along the lines of what I am looking for. You do have a point, this would not make Augustus' or his successors lives any easier as far as worrying about usurpation goes. That said, it begs the question why did the benefits outweigh the negatives such as easier usurpations, for Diocletian?
 
That said, it begs the question why did the benefits outweigh the negatives such as easier usurpations, for Diocletian?

This is not the only point, in which Diocletian was mistaken. :rolleyes:

The question is also, how you like to implement the praefecturae in your story. Just 4 praefects reporting to the emperor or 4 (co)emperors? I doubt, 4 emperors are possible. 4 guys with an imperium proconsulare given by the senate would strengthen the senate of this time. Something Augustus would never do, because he could loose control. These co-emperors would rather act like triumvir. And you know, how this always ended. People were happy, that they got rid of triumvirs and civil wars. Why should the senate, the plebs urbana or Augustus himself accept such a model?

There is also no need for 4 emperors in the 1st century. The need ("Kaisernähe") for such an organisation appeared during the 2nd/3rd century.
 
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