Could Napoleon win in 1814? - TL planning

[Book addict]

I am contemplating writing a Napoleonic TL that would at least allow for a stalemate in the 1814 France campaign. Trouble is, I'm finding it difficult deciding which is the most realistic in providing such a result:

Blucher is captured during the battle of Brienne - towards the end of the battle, 400 French infantry entered the Prussian headquarters unnoticed and nearly captured Blucher. This was early in the campaign and would've briefly paralyzed allied command and morale, therefore avoiding the crucial battle of La Rothiere which occured 2 days later.

Macdonald intercepts Yorck and Osten-Sacken after Chateau-Thierry - Macdonald was ordered to capture the bridge of Chateau-Thierry so as to prevent the escape of Yorck and Osten-Sacken so that Napoleon could completely crush their corps and then re-join Marmont as a collective force to finish the remaining army of Silesia. However, Macdonald failed to do so and Napoleon missed the opportunity to gain some significant military and diplomatic leverage, considering that until early March the coalition were still willing to negotiate.

Soissons doesn't fall and Blucher's army is defeated at the Aisne - the Soisson garrison surrendered on March 4th after a brief siege. This allowed Blucher to cross the Aisne river and collect his forces at Laon, where he was also reinforced. Had that not occurred, Blucher would've had his back to the river like Bennigsen at Friedland, and a decisive battle would've ensued.

 

[SWS]

Well, Napoleon's general strategy for the defense of France in 1814 was to fortify Paris for protracted resistance, while he would maneuver his reserves against the Allied armies attempting to converge and defeat them in detail. There are also the Francs-tireurs, who may operate against enemy lines of supply and communication. This scheme appears to be interestingly similar to Joseph E. Johnston's planned defense of Atlanta and the Georgia heartland fifty years later before his own untimely removal.

The Emperor told Berthier that he sought to 'repeat the campaign of Italy.' He did indeed execute a model campaign of maneuver. But Radetzky calculated the Allies could field 610,000 men; while Napoleon was troubled to deploy even 120,000, many of these conscripted, teenaged 'Marie-Louises'. France is simply a war-weary and discontent nation at this point. There are also the potential machinations of Talleyrand and Fouché. Only the excesses of the Bourbon Restoration can restore Bonapartist popularity, I suppose. But the Allies have their own inter-political squabbles and territorial disputes, and a bloody, extensive campaign in France may exacerbate tenuous Coalition politics.

Schwarzenberg sought to reinstate his attritional pre-Leipzig strategy coupled with the offensive aggression of Blücher. Prussian pugnaciousness can result in their destruction, as demonstrated on several occasions. The annihilation of Blücher in any scenario would certainly aid the Napoleonic strategy and cause. Then can cautious Schwarzenberg be dealt with. If Paris can be held, the Marshals will probably remain loyal.

 

[Book addict]

Well, Napoleon's general strategy for the defense of France in 1814 was to fortify Paris for protracted resistance, while he would maneuver his reserves against the Allied armies attempting to converge and defeat them in detail. There are also the Francs-tireurs, who may operate against enemy lines of supply and communication. This scheme appears to be interestingly similar to Joseph E. Johnston's planned defense of Atlanta and the Georgia heartland fifty years later before his own untimely removal.

The Emperor told Berthier that he sought to 'repeat the campaign of Italy.' He did indeed execute a model campaign of maneuver. But Radetzky calculated the Allies could field 610,000 men; while Napoleon was troubled to deploy even 120,000, many of these conscripted, teenaged 'Marie-Louises'. France is simply a war-weary and discontent nation at this point. There are also the potential machinations of Talleyrand and Fouché. Only the excesses of the Bourbon Restoration can restore Bonapartist popularity, I suppose. But the Allies have their own inter-political squabbles and territorial disputes, and a bloody, extensive campaign in France may exacerbate tenuous Coalition politics.

Schwarzenberg sought to reinstate his attritional pre-Leipzig strategy coupled with the offensive aggression of Blücher. Prussian pugnaciousness can result in their destruction, as demonstrated on several occasions. The annihilation of Blücher in any scenario would certainly aid the Napoleonic strategy and cause. Then can cautious Schwarzenberg be dealt with. If Paris can be held, the Marshals will probably remain loyal.

Thanks for your very detailed response!

I suppose of the latter two options of my poll (as Blucher being captured would only cause a temporary effect), Macdonald capturing the Chateau-Thierry bridge would give Napoleon the best chance of success as he could, as you've mentioned, defeat in detail.

If Blucher had been annihilated in mid February, what would be the political consequences? An armistice perhaps?

 

[Tanaka did nothing wrong]

Thanks for your very detailed response!

I suppose of the latter two options of my poll (as Blucher being captured would only cause a temporary effect), Macdonald capturing the Chateau-Thierry bridge would give Napoleon the best chance of success as he could, as you've mentioned, defeat in detail.

If Blucher had been annihilated in mid February, what would be the political consequences? An armistice perhaps?

Well, not sure. The Austrians (Metternich) would probably push for it, because

a) with Prussia having been immobilised for the moment, the relative strength of Russia is increased; it is one thing to be Russia, Austria AND Prussia and quite another to have just the first two be the powers with armies in France and

b) because the setback could be used as an argument to convince the British that a compete victory wouldn't be possible, thus bringing back what Metternich tried to do during 1813. After all, Prussia's thrashing would pro be advantageous as well in some ways, since it could make Hardenberg more moderate in his aims and Prussia's greater dependence on Russia than even before could perhaps be exploited to sow fear /anxiety in Berlin and make Prussia seek a closer relationship with Austria to balance out Russian influence, and this time, Austria would be able to get at least some of the major points its foreign minister wanted.

Of course, Alexander and the British would probably want to continue the war; but if Napoleon's victory against the Prussians was followed by a failure of the allies to penetrate deep into French territory, the prospect of a drawn out campaign could perhaps make the Russians and the British open at least to the idea of opening negotiations. They would probably not want to agree to a truce so readily, since that could allow Napoleon to drag his heels and rebuild his army; but the potential would be there.

 

[Book addict]

Well, not sure. The Austrians (Metternich) would probably push for it, because

a) with Prussia having been immobilised for the moment, the relative strength of Russia is increased; it is one thing to be Russia, Austria AND Prussia and quite another to have just the first two be the powers with armies in France and

b) because the setback could be used as an argument to convince the British that a compete victory wouldn't be possible, thus bringing back what Metternich tried to do during 1813. After all, Prussia's thrashing would pro be advantageous as well in some ways, since it could make Hardenberg more moderate in his aims and Prussia's greater dependence on Russia than even before could perhaps be exploited to sow fear /anxiety in Berlin and make Prussia seek a closer relationship with Austria to balance out Russian influence, and this time, Austria would be able to get at least some of the major points its foreign minister wanted.

Considering this, could the Frankfurt proposals have been revived? As by this point Napoleon was willing to agree to them.

Of course, Alexander and the British would probably want to continue the war; but if Napoleon's victory against the Prussians was followed by a failure of the allies to penetrate deep into French territory, the prospect of a drawn out campaign could perhaps make the Russians and the British open at least to the idea of opening negotiations. They would probably not want to agree to a truce so readily, since that could allow Napoleon to drag his heels and rebuild his army; but the potential would be there.

The prospect of a drawn out campaign would be more likely as Napoleon would be able to concentrate all his forces against Schwarzenberg

 

[Tanaka did nothing wrong]

Considering this, could the Frankfurt proposals have been revived? As by this point Napoleon was willing to agree to them.

Well, Napoleon (infamously) dragged his heels there; he was still considering the situation to be a reversal perhaps more akin to the early stages of the war of the Second Coalition. As expected, his terms were rather off the mark, although Metternich didn't desist until after the end, since he wanted to avoid a prolonging of the war that would most likely only serve to stengthen Russia.

Now, 1814 is different perhaps. Napoleon has been already defeated in Leipzig, he had been forced to abandon Germany, the British and the Spanish are approaching fast from the south, the Austrians and the Neapolitans are making progress in Italy. Therefore, he may be more willing to accept to make some more meaningful concessions in exchange for peace. The good thing (sort of), as I said, is that it's only Austria and Russia that will determine the future of Germany from the Allied side; this means that it will be somewhat more difficult for Alexander to push for his plans and that Austria will probably be seen more clearly as the protector of the small and middle German states (after all, Stein had been accompanying Alexander, some would say). For his part, Metternich would probably start from a 1813 point: while Westphalia would most likely be gone, Germany would perhaps be declared neutral, with the Rheinbund remaining unaligned under a sort of international protectorate guaranteed by the Great Powers (Austria, Russia, France and perhaps Britain and Prussia (the latter as consolation price and keep it in the game in some capacity)); Austria would reclaim the Illyrian Provinces. Perhaps, to get the deal, Metternich could agree to keep Italy out of any list of demands, as he did in 1813.

But these are rather favourable terms, and it would depend on how much Metternich would have wanted to end the war; also, there is the question of what the Austrian emperor would have wanted, since Francis wasn't of the same mind as his foreign minister all the time, as it showed in both domestic and foreign policy at the time and afterwards. Also, Metternich would also weigh it against the threat of losing British support, which he sought as a stabilising factor, and the British wouldn't be very happy to be thrown under the bus by the Austrians. So Metternich would have to include some British demands: Hannover could be covered by a German treaty, Napoleon could perhaps agree to leave Spain and Naples is already against Napoleon and perhaps there could be an agreement to return to something resembling the pre-1805 status quo in Italy, which the British could, potentially, accept. This leaves Holland and the Low Countries in general, which would be a big bone of contention between London and Paris; I am not sure whether the Allies could get a French concession there, although the British and Napoleon might, just might (best case scenario) agree that the kingdom would be restored and that it would be again under Louis Bonaparte and perhaps neutral under treaty. So, with these, perhaps a peace treaty could be negotiated.

Again, this is an unlikely scenario, where Napoleon shows more tact and moderation than usual, Metternich is perhaps more willing and in a position to make such an agreement and Alexander agrees.

The prospect of a drawn out campaign would be more likely as Napoleon would be able to concentrate all his forces against Schwarzenberg

The thing is, by 1814, the Allies have learnt many, if not most of Napoleon's tricks; Napoleon would find it increasingly difficult to surprise them. And the Allies have time on their side; after all, "quantity has a quality of his own" and the French Army in 1814 isn't the one in 1811.

 

[Book addict]

Well, Napoleon (infamously) dragged his heels there; he was still considering the situation to be a reversal perhaps more akin to the early stages of the war of the Second Coalition. As expected, his terms were rather off the mark, although Metternich didn't desist until after the end, since he wanted to avoid a prolonging of the war that would most likely only serve to stengthen Russia.

Now, 1814 is different perhaps. Napoleon has been already defeated in Leipzig, he had been forced to abandon Germany, the British and the Spanish are approaching fast from the south, the Austrians and the Neapolitans are making progress in Italy. Therefore, he may be more willing to accept to make some more meaningful concessions in exchange for peace. The good thing (sort of), as I said, is that it's only Austria and Russia that will determine the future of Germany from the Allied side; this means that it will be somewhat more difficult for Alexander to push for his plans and that Austria will probably be seen more clearly as the protector of the small and middle German states (after all, Stein had been accompanying Alexander, some would say). For his part, Metternich would probably start from a 1813 point: while Westphalia would most likely be gone, Germany would perhaps be declared neutral, with the Rheinbund remaining unaligned under a sort of international protectorate guaranteed by the Great Powers (Austria, Russia, France and perhaps Britain and Prussia (the latter as consolation price and keep it in the game in some capacity)); Austria would reclaim the Illyrian Provinces. Perhaps, to get the deal, Metternich could agree to keep Italy out of any list of demands, as he did in 1813.

But these are rather favourable terms, and it would depend on how much Metternich would have wanted to end the war; also, there is the question of what the Austrian emperor would have wanted, since Francis wasn't of the same mind as his foreign minister all the time, as it showed in both domestic and foreign policy at the time and afterwards. Also, Metternich would also weigh it against the threat of losing British support, which he sought as a stabilising factor, and the British wouldn't be very happy to be thrown under the bus by the Austrians. So Metternich would have to include some British demands: Hannover could be covered by a German treaty, Napoleon could perhaps agree to leave Spain and Naples is already against Napoleon and perhaps there could be an agreement to return to something resembling the pre-1805 status quo in Italy, which the British could, potentially, accept. This leaves Holland and the Low Countries in general, which would be a big bone of contention between London and Paris; I am not sure whether the Allies could get a French concession there, although the British and Napoleon might, just might (best case scenario) agree that the kingdom would be restored and that it would be again under Louis Bonaparte and perhaps neutral under treaty. So, with these, perhaps a peace treaty could be negotiated.

Again, this is an unlikely scenario, where Napoleon shows more tact and moderation than usual, Metternich is perhaps more willing and in a position to make such an agreement and Alexander agrees.

I'd imagine that a proposed treaty would be similar to this:

• Napoleon remains Emperor and France withdraws to its 'natural frontiers'
• Napoleon abdicates the Italian throne in favour of Eugene de Beauharnais (his step-son). The territory of the Kingdom is reduced to that of its previous republic, losing all annexed lands, including those gained from would-be Piedmont
• The Kingdom of Holland is restored with Louis Bonaparte as its sovereign
• Elisa Bonaparte remains sovereign of Lucca and Piombino until her death, after which it is to be ceded to the restored Grand Duchy of Tuscany
• Ferdinand Von Habsburg is restored as Grand Duke of Tuscany
• The King of Sardinia is restored in Piedmont, except for Savoy and Nice. As compensation, they gain the previous territory of the Ligurian Republic
• The Papal States is restored to its borders of 1808, before its annexation
• Joachim Murat remains King of Naples and respects the sovereignty of Bourbon Sicily. Vice versa occurs also
• Charles-Louis of Bourbon-Parma inherits the restored Duchy of Parma
• Austria's borders are restored to those of 1801, as per the treaty of Luneville; except for Salzburg which remains Austrian
• Prussia annexes the remaining Duchy of Warsaw, which would restore her to the lost Polish lands from 1807, except for Bialystok which remains Russian
• Prussia annexes the Kingdom of Saxony
• Sweden cedes Swedish Pomerania to Prussia and annexes Norway from Denmark as compensation
• Russia cedes Tarnopol (back to) Austria, but keeps Bialystok and Finland as compensation
• British sovereignty is restored in Hannover
• The Kingdom of Westphalia is reduced to its initial borders of 1807, and Jerome Bonaparte abdicates. The territory is inherited by the house of Wettin as compensation for their loss of Saxony
• Bavaria annexes the Grand Duchy of Wurzburg as compensation for the loss of Tyrol and Salzburg
• Spanish sovereignty is restored under the house of Bourbon
• Portuguese sovereignty is restored under the house of Braganza

I've ignored smaller territories such as those in Germany for the sake of convenience.

The thing is, by 1814, the Allies have learnt many, if not most of Napoleon's tricks; Napoleon would find it increasingly difficult to surprise them. And the Allies have time on their side; after all, "quantity has a quality of his own" and the French Army in 1814 isn't the one in 1811.

I agree, and as @SWS said, France was unable to fight much longer; which is also why Napoleon needed a quick a decisive victory in 1814 in order to negotiate a favourable peace.

 

[Tanaka did nothing wrong]

I'd imagine that a proposed treaty would be similar to this:

• Napoleon remains Emperor and France withdraws to its 'natural frontiers'
• Napoleon abdicates the Italian throne in favour of Eugene de Beauharnais (his step-son). The territory of the Kingdom is reduced to that of its previous republic, losing all annexed lands, including those gained from would-be Piedmont
• The Kingdom of Holland is restored with Louis Bonaparte as its sovereign
• Elisa Bonaparte remains sovereign of Lucca and Piombino until her death, after which it is to be ceded to the restored Grand Duchy of Tuscany
• Ferdinand Von Habsburg is restored as Grand Duke of Tuscany
• The King of Sardinia is restored in Piedmont, except for Savoy and Nice. As compensation, they gain the previous territory of the Ligurian Republic
• The Papal States is restored to its borders of 1808, before its annexation
• Joachim Murat remains King of Naples and respects the sovereignty of Bourbon Sicily. Vice versa occurs also
• Charles-Louis of Bourbon-Parma inherits the restored Duchy of Parma
• Austria's borders are restored to those of 1801, as per the treaty of Luneville; except for Salzburg which remains Austrian
• Prussia annexes the remaining Duchy of Warsaw, which would restore her to the lost Polish lands from 1807, except for Bialystok which remains Russian
• Prussia annexes the Kingdom of Saxony
• Sweden cedes Swedish Pomerania to Prussia and annexes Norway from Denmark as compensation
• Russia cedes Tarnopol (back to) Austria, but keeps Bialystok and Finland as compensation
• British sovereignty is restored in Hannover
• The Kingdom of Westphalia is reduced to its initial borders of 1807, and Jerome Bonaparte abdicates. The territory is inherited by the house of Wettin as compensation for their loss of Saxony
• Bavaria annexes the Grand Duchy of Wurzburg as compensation for the loss of Tyrol and Salzburg
• Spanish sovereignty is restored under the house of Bourbon
• Portuguese sovereignty is restored under the house of Braganza

I've ignored smaller territories such as those in Germany for the sake of convenience.

Generally ok. There are some issues though:

1) why would Napoleon agree to have Piedmont restored and why would the Austrians agree to leave Romagna and Lombardy under Eugene? If Napoleon really had to choose, he would probably choose to sacrifice the Italian throne to keep Piedmont and Genoa under his rule. Also, Metternich would probably be more willing to give ground in Italy to gain concessions in Germany from the French to get the deal done. So I think that he would probably push for the Italian kingdom to retreat west of the Adige, sacrificing Tuscany in the process. Parma is also most likely not going to be restored.

2) Well, Austria reclaims the Illyrian provinces and perhaps Venetia from the French; but Tyrol and Salzburg are a different story, since they have been since 1805 (for Tyrol) and 1809 (for Salzburg) under Bavarian control; Metternich went to great lengths to create the impression that the collapse of the Napoelonic status quo in Germany wouldn't entail territorial losses for the princes that sided with Napoleon. In this case, he would have to tread very carefully, because if the princes became worried about Austrian intentions (and the Wittelsbach were perhaps the most important of them), they could turn to France and/or Russia, thus tarnishing the plan to turn Germany into a neutral ground between France and Russia that would allow Austria, as the third power, to step in and draw it closer to its orbit.

3) I think Wurzburg had already been annexed by Bavaria in 1809 (I need to check it though).

4) Westphalia would almost certainly be dead; if Metternich were to try to reclaim Tyrol and Salzburg, he would need to compensate the Bavarians elsewhere, which most likely means that some minor princes would have to be moved somewhere else in turn, and by 1814, he would probably be unwilling to allow a French foothold on the right side of the Rhine.

5) Saxony isn't going to be annexed by Prussia; it wasn't annexed even IOTL. ITTL Prussia is in a rather weaker negotiating position, and Metternich could likely count on France at least in this case to prevent this from happening. At most, Saxony would lose substantial territories to Prussia, but it would remain an independent state.

6) The Papal states would be somewhat complicated, since Murat had been promised 400,000 more inhabitants under his rule, who would most likely come from there. While the number wouldn't necessarily be precise, the Austrians would want a strong force to help them contain the French in Italy, so it's possible that the kingdom of Naples would expand northwards and annex Marche, Benevento - Pontecorvo and possibly Umbria as well, with the Papal states being reduced to Rome and Lazio. The British would probably share in this belief, and with the situation being less favourable than OTL, they would probably consider Murat more valuable as an ally and thus support this expansion.

Another issue is Switzerland, which I am not sure what its fate would be, for Alexander could show great interest there (as he did IOTL)

 

[Book addict]

Thanks for the feedback:

Generally ok. There are some issues though:

1) why would Napoleon agree to have Piedmont restored and why would the Austrians agree to leave Romagna and Lombardy under Eugene? If Napoleon really had to choose, he would probably choose to sacrifice the Italian throne to keep Piedmont and Genoa under his rule.

Would he though? Lombardy and Romagna had been under French dominance since 1796. Keeping those territories in the French orbit would satisfy Napoleon's demands for continued French influence in Italy. As for Piedmont and Genoa, I assumed they would return to Sardinia as France would withdraw to its 'natural frontiers', beyond the Alps. Although, Napoleon could argue to keep said territory if he is able to win a decisive victory against Schwarzenberg following Bluchers defeat (?).

Also, Metternich would probably be more willing to give ground in Italy to gain concessions in Germany from the French to get the deal done. So I think that he would probably push for the Italian kingdom to retreat west of the Adige, sacrificing Tuscany in the process. Parma is also most likely not going to be restored.

2) Well, Austria reclaims the Illyrian provinces and perhaps Venetia from the French; but Tyrol and Salzburg are a different story, since they have been since 1805 (for Tyrol) and 1809 (for Salzburg) under Bavarian control; Metternich went to great lengths to create the impression that the collapse of the Napoelonic status quo in Germany wouldn't entail territorial losses for the princes that sided with Napoleon. In this case, he would have to tread very carefully, because if the princes became worried about Austrian intentions (and the Wittelsbach were perhaps the most important of them), they could turn to France and/or Russia, thus tarnishing the plan to turn Germany into a neutral ground between France and Russia that would allow Austria, as the third power, to step in and draw it closer to its orbit.

3) I think Wurzburg had already been annexed by Bavaria in 1809 (I need to check it though).

4) Westphalia would almost certainly be dead; if Metternich were to try to reclaim Tyrol and Salzburg, he would need to compensate the Bavarians elsewhere, which most likely means that some minor princes would have to be moved somewhere else in turn, and by 1814, he would probably be unwilling to allow a French foothold on the right side of the Rhine.

Wouldn't Wurzburg (which wasn't annexed in 1809) be enough compensation for Bavaria, in return for it ceding Tyrol and Salzburg to Austria? After all, Austria was a great power with a historical claim to them, and Bavaria would be keeping its remaining territory.

5) Saxony isn't going to be annexed by Prussia; it wasn't annexed even IOTL. ITTL Prussia is in a rather weaker negotiating position, and Metternich could likely count on France at least in this case to prevent this from happening. At most, Saxony would lose substantial territories to Prussia, but it would remain an independent state.

So Prussia only regains most of her lost Polish territory and annexes Swedish Pomerania?

6) The Papal states would be somewhat complicated, since Murat had been promised 400,000 more inhabitants under his rule, who would most likely come from there. While the number wouldn't necessarily be precise, the Austrians would want a strong force to help them contain the French in Italy, so it's possible that the kingdom of Naples would expand northwards and annex Marche, Benevento - Pontecorvo and possibly Umbria as well, with the Papal states being reduced to Rome and Lazio. The British would probably share in this belief, and with the situation being less favourable than OTL, they would probably consider Murat more valuable as an ally and thus support this expansion.

Another issue is Switzerland, which I am not sure what its fate would be, for Alexander could show great interest there (as he did IOTL)

 

[Tanaka did nothing wrong]

Wouldn't Wurzburg (which wasn't annexed in 1809) be enough compensation for Bavaria, in return for it ceding Tyrol and Salzburg to Austria? After all, Austria was a great power with a historical claim to them, and Bavaria would be keeping its remaining territory.

Uhhh, no. Würzburg wouldn't be enough to give Bavaria proportional compensation for Tyrol and Salzburg, since that was the basic promise made to Bavaria (ie maintain the same extent /population). And IOTL, the question of the Bavarian territories that were taken from Austria took almost two years to be resolved.

 

[Wendell]

This is a really interesting thread and set of ideas. I would remind you though that, if there is still a Polish/Saxon Crisis in this timeline, it might lead to war as it nearly did in OTL, but this time with Napoleonic instead of restored Bourbon France backing Austria. Also, I tend to think that the states of Napoleon's sisters are likelier to endure than are those of his brothers, and the British might come around to French rule of Antwerp, but would probably require that any restored "Kingdom of Holland" revert to Orange rule.

 

[Book addict]

This is a really interesting thread and set of ideas. I would remind you though that, if there is still a Polish/Saxon Crisis in this timeline, it might lead to war as it nearly did in OTL, but this time with Napoleonic instead of restored Bourbon France backing Austria. Also, I tend to think that the states of Napoleon's sisters are likelier to endure than are those of his brothers, and the British might come around to French rule of Antwerp, but would probably require that any restored "Kingdom of Holland" revert to Orange rule.

A Kingdom of Holland under Orange rule would be nigh impossible. Even in OTL, Napoleon demanded that it remain under French dominance, as well as most of northern Italy.

 

[Slime_blob]

Napoleon in some accounts was manning the cannons during a battle in February of 1814

 

[Mikestone8]

Considering this, could the Frankfurt proposals have been revived? As by this point Napoleon was willing to agree to them.

Except hat at the time of Frankfurt he still *held^ Belgium and the Rhineland.

Once the Allies have overrun these areas, they certainly aren't going to give them back. Nappy might get the 1792 borders, but that would be it.

 

[Baron Bizarre]

For some reason, I saw the title of this thread and thought "Could Napoleon have won if he replaced Pakenham at New Orleans?" This is probably whay no one takes me seriously. Especially since that was 1815, wasn't it? Sorry.

 

[Slime_blob]

If nappy peaces out yes, just wait for a few years then round 2 Napoleonic boogalooo

 

[Book addict]

The poll has closed, and the most voted PoD for my TL is that Macdonald captures the Chateau-Teirry bridge following the battle of Montmirail during the six days' campaign in mid February. This prevents the escape of Yorck and Osten-Sacken and allows Napoleon to properly annihilate Blucher afterwards.

If anyone would like to make further contributions to the planning of this TL, then all advice and criticisms are welcome.

 

[Slime_blob]

The poll has closed, and the most voted PoD for my TL is that Macdonald captures the Chateau-Teirry bridge following the battle of Montmirail during the six days' campaign in mid February. This prevents the escape of Yorck and Osten-Sacken and allows Napoleon to properly annihilate Blucher afterwards.

If anyone would like to make further contributions to the planning of this TL, then all advice and criticisms are welcome.

Nappy can't really Like force the coalition to agree to his terms, maybe if some victories happen ala Austerlitz or Leipzig that wins him. It might give him a chance to like power in the negociating table where he can still like fight back and show it's gonna be a bloddy figt

 

[Book addict]

Nappy can't really Like force the coalition to agree to his terms, maybe if some victories happen ala Austerlitz or Leipzig that wins him. It might give him a chance to like power in the negociating table where he can still like fight back and show it's gonna be a bloddy figt

He can't force them, but Blucher's defeat would cause the Prussians to either be more reliant on Russia, or increase relations with Austria. Metternich would thus have a larger sway with diplomacy and would argue that a powerful France was needed to balance Russia.

 

[Slime_blob]

He can't force them, but Blucher's defeat would cause the Prussians to either be more reliant on Russia, or increase relations with Austria. Metternich would thus have a larger sway with diplomacy and would argue that a powerful France was needed to balance Russia.

I agree but a big victory is needed

Destroying whole armies of the coalition ala Austerlitz or Leipzig will definitely have the Austrians try convince others that peace is an option. As they would be both more reliant on Russia. Aside from that, Austria might even flip towards nappy. As it's like the two are headed of an alliance as the heir is The Austrian emperor's grandkid and what he only needs to do is his mom like teach the kid to be an austrophile