Could Napoleon be the emperor of Louisiana?

It couldn't include New Orleans, but other than that I think its possible. All that the US really cared about in the deal was New Orleans, and the rest was just a bonus that Napoleon offered because he needed the funds. Lets say he sells New Orleans but not the rest, and a while down the line sees that his war is a lost cause, so he abdicated and flees to Louisiana. The new French Regime makes peace and disavows Napoleon, and he makes little fuss. I think this is essentially ASB (if not outright so) but its what I can see.

It's practically useless without New Orleans though.
 
I know, but thats what it would take. The US wanted New Orleans, and would have gotten it one way or another. They take the city or they take it all, no other option.

Which that leaves Napoleon as emperor of a collection of small towns and frontier posts with their main outlet in control of the United States. Eventually Anglo settlers will overwhelm the territory and probably petition the United States for annexation.

But with New Orleans in his hand, there's probably some faint hope Napoleon can become Emperor over a mainly Anglo Louisiana and avoid US annexation by having the settlers develop some identity as Westerners (but different than Westerners in, say, Tennessee), with the Bonapartes as their emperor.
 
Which that leaves Napoleon as emperor of a collection of small towns and frontier posts with their main outlet in control of the United States. Eventually Anglo settlers will overwhelm the territory and probably petition the United States for annexation.

But with New Orleans in his hand, there's probably some faint hope Napoleon can become Emperor over a mainly Anglo Louisiana and avoid US annexation by having the settlers develop some identity as Westerners (but different than Westerners in, say, Tennessee), with the Bonapartes as their emperor.

But there is 0% chance that the US lets anyone else hold New Orleans, so the argument is invalid.

The question never was "Have Napoleon hold a strong empire in Louisiana" it was "Have Napoleon be Emperor of Louisiana." If his empire is made up of fur trading towns and a few forts, it still fulfills the prompt. I mean, lets be honest. The only chance that Louisiana was going to a strong independent nation would be so far back that Napoleon would be butterflied generations prior.
 
I think Byzantium has quite a reasonable chance of recovery in the 1200s, much more so than Louisiana: 1200-1204, that is.

Another further wrinkle is the fact that A. No Napoleonic Wars means more Francophones that can immigrate, and B. Louisiana is perfectly capable of taking in other European immigrants, like the Irish, if they want to.

I highly disagree with this.
 
I highly disagree with this.
In what way? Do you think it is impossible for Byzantium to recover in 1203, prior to the Fourth Crusade? Or do you think that Louisiana would have too much trouble attracting immigrants? Or something else?
-The Buonapartes move to New Orleans.
-French Revolution averted
-Louisianian revolution
-???
-Emperor Napoleon
Pretty much how I see it, as I outlined. You won't have a Bonaparte Empire outside of France once he starts going.

Ironically, we may see the British supporting Napoleon's Louisiana in this scenario. :)
 
Unless they're under Articles of Confederation, making them not so united after all.

But again, that's a POD close to 15 years before Napoleon takes power. An Articles US means that Napoleon may never rise. And anyway, even an Articles government wouldn't want to allow someone else to hold it.
 

Deleted member 97083

And anyway, even an Articles government wouldn't want to allow someone else to hold it.
Unless the Articles of Confederation led to decades of regional war, from a larger Shay's Rebellion and Massachussetts declaring independence, to a semi-successful British invasion and an early unification of the Midwestern tribes, even before Tecumseh brings the Northwestern Territory to its knees. When the Union is in its death throes, Saint Napoleon, Emperor of Louisiana, marches in and unites the disunited states into the magnanimous American Empire, a new Continental Order, making distinctions between "French" and "American" irrelevant.
 

ben0628

Banned
But again, that's a POD close to 15 years before Napoleon takes power. An Articles US means that Napoleon may never rise. And anyway, even an Articles government wouldn't want to allow someone else to hold it.

An articles government wouldn't have the authority or power to stop Napoleon. Hell if the constitution never forms, the US could break up.

I still believe the best pod is a US conquers most of Canada in war of 1812 and GB supports a Napoleonic Louisiana, which would make the US think twice about trying to squeeze New Orleans.
 
An articles government wouldn't have the authority or power to stop Napoleon. Hell if the constitution never forms, the US could break up.

I still believe the best pod is a US conquers most of Canada in war of 1812 and GB supports a Napoleonic Louisiana, which would make the US think twice about trying to squeeze New Orleans.

Keep in mind that this Emperor Napoleon would rule an empire of maybe 60,000, of which half of whom are enslaved. Compare that to the 5 million or so in the US.

For an Articles government to declare war on Napoleon (and lets be honest, it wasn't going to collapse. Just would've stayed much more confederational and less unified), they have to vote on declaring war, which everyone would want because of trade money. Then the US rolls over Napoleon and annexes the territory anyway.

By the war of 1812, unless that is expedited, the US will have New Orleans, and even if they own Canada, New Orleans is far too valuable. It was probably the most important trade city in the US, hell North America, until the Erie Canal.
 
In what way? Do you think it is impossible for Byzantium to recover in 1203, prior to the Fourth Crusade? Or do you think that Louisiana would have too much trouble attracting immigrants? Or something else?

Pretty much how I see it, as I outlined. You won't have a Bonaparte Empire outside of France once he starts going.

Ironically, we may see the British supporting Napoleon's Louisiana in this scenario. :)

Byzantium's recovery. However, that is for another thread.
 
Keep in mind that this Emperor Napoleon would rule an empire of maybe 60,000, of which half of whom are enslaved. Compare that to the 5 million or so in the US.

For an Articles government to declare war on Napoleon (and lets be honest, it wasn't going to collapse. Just would've stayed much more confederational and less unified), they have to vote on declaring war, which everyone would want because of trade money. Then the US rolls over Napoleon and annexes the territory anyway.

By the war of 1812, unless that is expedited, the US will have New Orleans, and even if they own Canada, New Orleans is far too valuable. It was probably the most important trade city in the US, hell North America, until the Erie Canal.

Well assuming his state lasts at least 5 years or so, the population would be more than double that, perhaps even more due to his presence. The population of some of the areas in the Basse Louisiane are increasing by multiples of 100% in the very early transition period from Spain to France to America.
 

B-29_Bomber

Banned
The US wanted New Orleans,

No. The US wanted full and free access to the full length of the Mississippi River. It was just that owning New Orleans was the easiest way to achieve that aim.

Having a regime friendly to American interests, which Bonepartist Louisiana would be, achieves the same thing.
 
But this had a very early POD - Seven years before Nappy's death. Even if Napoleon is still born, this would change all of Napoleon's education and character. It would be quite unlikely that you get the same Napoleon.


Yeah, I remember, but it is more realistic. Louisiana was extremely sparsely populated and time is against Louisianian independce. They have to go for it ASAP.

Another possibility I can think is that there is no Louisiana Purchase, but Napoleon somehow (I don't know how) negotiates with the U.S. and two countries remain at the very least on neutral or, at best, on friendly terms. Later on, after a war in Europe, Napoleon is overthrown, but escapes to French Lousiana. He either proclaims it independent or it is a sort of "Second France". Bonapartists from France and French Caribbean rally to New Orleans, boosting the population. Napoleon, backed by the US continues to fight the British and the Spanish, supports colonial independence movement and so on. Pure fantasy, though.

(Highly unlikely, but if somebody wants to do such a TL, I'm ready to participate).
 
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I think another problem was that by 1820 Napoleon's health was rapidly declining. Perhaps had his exile in Saint Helena been avoided he may have lived longer but if his health remains the same he will have about five to seven years to build a nation and pass it to his successors. An unstable Louisiana after his death would either be annexed or become a protectorate of the United States
 

ben0628

Banned
Is there any way that we could get some of Napoleon's marshals who served under him to join him in exile?
 
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