Could Napoleon be the emperor of Louisiana?
- Thread starter Gukpard
- Start date
No but Napoleon as Emperor of Louisiana is such a cool idea that it has to be possible.
While Napoleon flees to Louisiana, a royalist USA with a succession crisis between the Hohenzollerns (Henry of Prussia) and Washingtons (Bushrod Washington) could also make this very interesting indeed.
JEJEJE i was not that extreme with butterflies but things can happen, we're an alternate history forum, we must explored it.
My idea is simple,Napoleon keep lousiana and later got sended there to keep far away from europe and just stay there defeated.
Anaxagoras
Banned
This would involve the French having kept Louisiana in 1803 rather than selling it to the United States. But in that case, either the British would seize it in the same manner that they seized other French colonies or the Americans would have taken it to keep it out of the hands of both the British and the French. Most likely the latter.
Louis XVI dies early, in the late 1780s. The regency of his son is controlled by his very reactionary brothers, who with foreign support come down hard on the revolutionaries, starting their own kind of reign of terror. Many Liberals flee, most to Britain or other nations, but some to Louisiana. This provides a boost to the Francophone population there, and Napoleon gets unlucky and has to flee as well.
The United States, seeking to expand its influence in the face of a powerful Spanish Empire, works closely with Francophones to create a Republic of Louisiane that's aligned with them and will cede most of the northern Louisiana Territory. Napoleon due to his talents quickly becomes a key leader of this conspiracy, and When Spain is distracted in another war it succeeds.
The Republic of Louisiane is Democratic in name, but is more or less controlled by Napoleon and the military, who are themselves heavily influenced by the United States. Napoleon is elected virtually unopposed to multiple terms as President, where he leads the nation to shoot well above its weight. He tries to attract as many francophones, particularly liberal ones, to Louisiana as possible to offset the many American settlers who have a fair amount of influence in the nation. Working closely with the U.S, he fights off Spanish and British encroachment in the Mississippi and possibly expands Louisiana into some of Texas, though he has to give up most land north of the OTL Orleans Territory. His quest to hang onto power is only matched by his quest to keep the country independent of U.S control. The country is very liberal, abolishing slavery and giving similar rights as those handed out in the French Revolution.
After Napoleon's death, Louisiane develops as a middle-sized Republic heavily tied to the United States. Although French remains its language and the language of the people, waves of American, German and Irish immigrants have a huge effect on the culture of the country, particularly outside of the more French New Orleans. Today Louisiana still has a close relationship with its large neighbor, the United States, but has managed to create its own culture and has had an influence on world affairs. Territoriality, it covers OTL Arkansas and Louisiana, plus parts of Texas and Oklahoma it took from Mexico. It has become much more of a true democracy since the early days, but to this day Napoleon Bonaparte is revered as Louisiane's own George Washington, and well respected by military historians as an accomplished general in his own right.
The United States, seeking to expand its influence in the face of a powerful Spanish Empire, works closely with Francophones to create a Republic of Louisiane that's aligned with them and will cede most of the northern Louisiana Territory. Napoleon due to his talents quickly becomes a key leader of this conspiracy, and When Spain is distracted in another war it succeeds.
The Republic of Louisiane is Democratic in name, but is more or less controlled by Napoleon and the military, who are themselves heavily influenced by the United States. Napoleon is elected virtually unopposed to multiple terms as President, where he leads the nation to shoot well above its weight. He tries to attract as many francophones, particularly liberal ones, to Louisiana as possible to offset the many American settlers who have a fair amount of influence in the nation. Working closely with the U.S, he fights off Spanish and British encroachment in the Mississippi and possibly expands Louisiana into some of Texas, though he has to give up most land north of the OTL Orleans Territory. His quest to hang onto power is only matched by his quest to keep the country independent of U.S control. The country is very liberal, abolishing slavery and giving similar rights as those handed out in the French Revolution.
After Napoleon's death, Louisiane develops as a middle-sized Republic heavily tied to the United States. Although French remains its language and the language of the people, waves of American, German and Irish immigrants have a huge effect on the culture of the country, particularly outside of the more French New Orleans. Today Louisiana still has a close relationship with its large neighbor, the United States, but has managed to create its own culture and has had an influence on world affairs. Territoriality, it covers OTL Arkansas and Louisiana, plus parts of Texas and Oklahoma it took from Mexico. It has become much more of a true democracy since the early days, but to this day Napoleon Bonaparte is revered as Louisiane's own George Washington, and well respected by military historians as an accomplished general in his own right.
EMPEROR of Louisiana. Now a plausible situation for that occurring is something similar to the OTL Portuguese relocation to Brazil. However, Napoleon would need some troops, methinks that Native American tribes might prove useful allies. (And freed slaves, exiled Napoleonists and other such groups.)
Same difference. He IS emperor, just under a different name.
Once Napoleon becomes who he is in France, there's no way in hell the European powers will let him have a new base of support in the New World.
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Louisiana is too sparsely populated to support a real empire that would have to fight against Spain, the US and Great Britain.
A hopeless position. And Napoléon isn't the guy to fight hopeless battles. He'll rather be ruler of Corsica where he knows the rules, his friends and enemies than immigrating to a gigantic, but weak country he not even knows on a continent hostile to him.
Also, much of Napoléon's succes relied on the skilled generals and the superb artillery of revolutionary France. However, there were neither the manpower to get extraordinary leaders nor the industry to produce a large amount of artillery in colonial Louisiana (this industry never developed, just think of the South's disadvantage during the Civil War). So even if Napoléon achieves to become the leader of a country completly foreign to him, he would never be able to reproduce his OTL's victories there.
And do you really expect that he would be able to rule Anglo-American territory if he, against all odds, manages to conquer some? An Emperor of America 20 years after the end of the ARW? Come on, that's just hilarious.
A hopeless position. And Napoléon isn't the guy to fight hopeless battles. He'll rather be ruler of Corsica where he knows the rules, his friends and enemies than immigrating to a gigantic, but weak country he not even knows on a continent hostile to him.
Also, much of Napoléon's succes relied on the skilled generals and the superb artillery of revolutionary France. However, there were neither the manpower to get extraordinary leaders nor the industry to produce a large amount of artillery in colonial Louisiana (this industry never developed, just think of the South's disadvantage during the Civil War). So even if Napoléon achieves to become the leader of a country completly foreign to him, he would never be able to reproduce his OTL's victories there.
And do you really expect that he would be able to rule Anglo-American territory if he, against all odds, manages to conquer some? An Emperor of America 20 years after the end of the ARW? Come on, that's just hilarious.
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Actually, Direwolf's Disaster at Leuthen has a Louisiana Empire ruled by Bonapartes. Though it's actually Napoleon's son who becomes emperor, but, I guess, that's as cloce as you can get.
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But this had a very early POD - Seven years before Nappy's death. Even if Napoleon is still born, this would change all of Napoleon's education and character. It would be quite unlikely that you get the same Napoleon.
The problem is that US would not be happy with anything less than the entire Mississippi River down to New Orleans. Having the North part of the river and not the southern part is detrimental to river trade. This was a sore point of contention between Spain and the United States prior to France reacquiring the territory
Should be worth noting that should the rise of the United States not be butterflied away Louisiana will inevitably be conquered or become an American puppet.
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A common theme on this site is underestimating francophone Louisiane. Without realizing that thousands of of thousands of exiled people arrived there nearly tripling the population of the land and making Nouvelle Orléans one of the largest cities in the Americas (mind you, it was through the better part of the 1800s one of the largest cities in the western world and with a majority francophone populace). Is it improbable? Yes, but most certainly not impossible.
This site has a tendency to pick favorites, cough cough Byzantium. If you feel Byzantium had any sort of chance of recovery in the 1200s, you then cannot turn around and say Louisiane has no chance. It is ridiculous.
This site has a tendency to pick favorites, cough cough Byzantium. If you feel Byzantium had any sort of chance of recovery in the 1200s, you then cannot turn around and say Louisiane has no chance. It is ridiculous.
I think Byzantium has quite a reasonable chance of recovery in the 1200s, much more so than Louisiana: 1200-1204, that is.
Another further wrinkle is the fact that A. No Napoleonic Wars means more Francophones that can immigrate, and B. Louisiana is perfectly capable of taking in other European immigrants, like the Irish, if they want to.
Another further wrinkle is the fact that A. No Napoleonic Wars means more Francophones that can immigrate, and B. Louisiana is perfectly capable of taking in other European immigrants, like the Irish, if they want to.
ben0628
Banned
This is a question I have asked before. The main problem is not France keeping Louisiana. The problem is having the major powers who won the Napoleonic Wars exiling Napoleon to Louisiana. The British did not want Napoleon to rise again in North America where he could cause a threat to a still very French populated British Canada. Not only that, but if Napoleon is defeated and Louisiana is still French, the French monarchy will still claim the colony as his.
Your best bet for this is have the United States achieve complete victory in the War of 1812 and result with the American annexation of Canada. Without Canada, Great Britain has no reason to care about North America AND would want to find some way to stick it to its former colonies. Sending Napoleon to Louisiana would be a nice way to put a wrench in American imperialism. And who knows? Maybe when the American Civil War breaks out (if its out butterflied away), you'll see a Napoleonic/British/Confederate Alliance break out against the North.
Your best bet for this is have the United States achieve complete victory in the War of 1812 and result with the American annexation of Canada. Without Canada, Great Britain has no reason to care about North America AND would want to find some way to stick it to its former colonies. Sending Napoleon to Louisiana would be a nice way to put a wrench in American imperialism. And who knows? Maybe when the American Civil War breaks out (if its out butterflied away), you'll see a Napoleonic/British/Confederate Alliance break out against the North.
It couldn't include New Orleans, but other than that I think its possible. All that the US really cared about in the deal was New Orleans, and the rest was just a bonus that Napoleon offered because he needed the funds. Lets say he sells New Orleans but not the rest, and a while down the line sees that his war is a lost cause, so he abdicated and flees to Louisiana. The new French Regime makes peace and disavows Napoleon, and he makes little fuss. I think this is essentially ASB (if not outright so) but its what I can see.