Could Magna Graecia rival the Latins and/or Rome?

As the title asks, could Magna Graecia rival the Latins and/or Rome?

Could Greek culture dominate Italy instead of being assimilated into the Roman culture?

Could Magna Graecia eventually become an empire as grand as that of Rome?
 
The essential point is:

Could anybody manage to unite the Greeks in today's Italy? Phyrrus tried, but came probably too late, even if he fared better. What if Alexander had been able to incorporate these polis into his empire and break their independance? What if one of his successors would have settled in Syrakus to reign over Magna Graecia?

This would have been a possibility.

The problem is, though, that Magna Graecia would not only have to deal with Rome, but also with Carthage. I am afraid that both would be best friends until the power of the Greek is broken (unless Greek unification comes early enough to crush to rise of Rome very early).
 

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I don't see why not.

The Greek cities were after all, for centuries, more advanced than the Latin and Etruscan tribes of the north.

Why can't a particular charasmatic leader from Tarantum or even Sicily make a try to conquer large swath of central Italy?
 
or even Sicily

I would assume Syracuse to be the most likely residence of such an entity.

Why conquer the Barbarians in the malaria swaps around Rome or in the hilly Eturian regions? I rather see Magna Graecia as defensive at home but expensive abroad. They might try to gain control over the Straits of Gibraltar, establish plenty of Colonies in the Western Mediterranean and....who knows, even carry Hellenism out off the Mediterranean basin. How about bases on the way to Britain?
 
Syracuse seemed to be the most likely candidate for the residence of a leader that has the chance to unite the Greek cities of southern Italy and the island of Sicily. I see such an empire being more concentrated in trade, like Carthage, setting up colonies in various strategic locations in the Mediterranean that remain autonomous in local affairs while providing troops and tribute to the main power Syracuse.
 
Could it be possible for Magna Graecia to be a military-focused power, and land at that, like Rome was, though?
 
Could it be possible for Magna Graecia to be a military-focused power, and land at that, like Rome was, though?

Probably not.

Depends on how the unification wasachieved. If it was done through a tyrant or a decendant of Alexander or something similar, the ruler would be very careful not to allow the people to sniff power or be trained as hoplites or rowers. Best to use mercenaries like Carthage.

This would mean no landed yeomanry similar to the Roman model. Rome became powerful and eventually dominant because of its political inovations not just military might. Hannibal won victory after crushing victory but could not wedge Rome and its allies nor beat the manpower available to the Roman state.

A federation like the Arcadian League might prove to be a viable alternative. Something like the Latins with a common religious/ political centre would be an option.
 
Yes, I think it could've. Of course, it'd hafta work WITH at least a significant part of Greece. My favorite possibility is if the Athenian when it still had its Delian League had had the brainz to realize that working WITH Syracuse was a much smarter bet than going to war against them. After all, they were both democracies at that point.

It's pretty likely they would've gone to war, as Rome was almost as aggressive as Cheney.

At that point, I think the combination had a miltech, size, and $$$ lead on Rome that later evaporated. It would've been no easy struggle, still, as Rome was a military innovation specialist.
 
Best to use mercenaries like Carthage.

Would Latin mercenaries work for this? Seems to me that having most of the young Latin men fighting for the Magna Graecians in other theatres might completely take the wind out of Rome's sails before it's even left the port. The Etruscans would probably prove annoying at times, but they might be just a useful buffer state, keeping a nice distance between Magna Graecia and Gaulish/Germanic invaders from the north.
 
Could it be possible for Magna Graecia to be a military-focused power, and land at that, like Rome was, though?

Could be, if it develops along Roman lines, that is a oligarchic/democratic state with good functioning administration develops, rather not merchant-based, conquers the surrounding cities and makes them citizens/foederati and continues expansion.

Problem is that merchant cities tend to not develop in those lines. They'd be more interested in oversea-trade and fleets, not in land-based legions. And merchant cities have the money to employ mercenaries.
 
Let's assume Alexander conquered or incorporated Magna Graecia.

Could a sort of 'Syracusean League' form in the Diadochi period, and ally with an Antigonos who lost all but Athens and the surrounding area to the Seleucids?

Or I guess we could have things other than a Syracusean League go as usual for the Diadochi wars, and they ally with Macedonia in 301 BC? Then again, that might be too late, Rome had gotten pretty big by then.
 
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The Latins were not the only ones in Italy guys ;)

The Greeks could prove instrumental in working with the Samnites, Vestini, Umbrians, Etruscans, and Italian Celts in crushing Rome during the otl Wars of the Italic League...think the Napoleonic Wars scenario, but with Rome as the budding French Empire.

Rome is like imperial France, The Samnites lead the Oscan and Umbrian tribes like Prussia in Germany, the occupied Sabines and Vestini play the role of the Iberian Kingdoms, the Etruscans can be Austria...

Who's missing?

Only the pivotal, powerful, powerhouse in a geographically close but advantageous position...a good Britain proxy!

Why not Magna Graecia?

Magna Graecia (Britain)!
 
The Latins were not the only ones in Italy guys ;)

The Greeks could prove instrumental in working with the Samnites, Vestini, Umbrians, Etruscans, and Italian Celts in crushing Rome during the otl Wars of the Italic League...think the Napoleonic Wars scenario, but with Rome as the budding French Empire.

Rome is like imperial France, The Samnites lead the Oscan and Umbrian tribes like Prussia in Germany, the occupied Sabines and Vestini play the role of the Iberian Kingdoms, the Etruscans can be Austria...

Who's missing?

Only the pivotal, powerful, powerhouse in a geographically close but advantageous position...a good Britain proxy!

Why not Magna Graecia?

Magna Graecia (Britain)!

The Latins were not the only ones in Italy, but the Greeks in Italy were only really in Sicily, Calabria, and Apulia.

Although that is a good idea/analogy.
 
Should I make a timeline?

Or, maybe I could try the Ancient Mediterranean collaborative timeline thing again, but the focus is Magna Graecia.
 

Hecatee

Donor
it would also depend of which cities you define as Magna Graecian at the time of your pod : many cities like Paestum, Velia, etc. where overun quite early (4th century BC if i'm right) by italic tribes (mainly Samnites) comming from central mountains. Also the geography of the south and the story of those cities makes it quite probable that they would be mainly a naval power, and a rival of Carthage first and foremost since they fought since at least the 6th century (battle of Alalia of phoceans established in Corsica against cathaginian and etruscan alliance, pyrrhic victory causing the greek to leave the island and found Veleia)
 
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