Could KMS Der Fuhrer survive a nuclear attack?

Does Der Fuhrer live?

  • Absolutely. "Tis but a scratch"

    Votes: 5 11.6%
  • Barely. Still floating with a huge hole in the middle.

    Votes: 9 20.9%
  • No. Glug Glug Glug...

    Votes: 29 67.4%

  • Total voters
    43
How much mind-altering substances would be needed to come up with a design like that?
AFAIK it wasn't even proposed by the Nazi's, someone on the Internet asked the question "What would a battleship carrying the 800mm guns look like?", someone else decided to answer the question, a third person took it as fact and put it on their website and a fourth cited that website in their book

So idle curiosity on the internet

Or I could be wrong but I would like a source besides internet websites of dubious quality to prove that
 
Define survive.

Able to make it back to port (if that port is <7 days sailing) if it doesn't get attacked any more, under whatever is left of its own power.

But the Fat Man was never intended for an anti-ship role, and I'm not optimistic.
Pounding it to death with 16"s and torpedoes is going to end pretty badly considering its armour and the fact that it carries 8 Gustavs, so I can imagine someone seriously consider nuking it if built.

on the far side of the ship from the blast would likely receive a dose that would not be fatal for a few months.
Which should let them turn the engines on and crawl back, no?

The question I see is, could they actually get the bomb within 600 meters of the ship?
We are assuming normal combat conditions. I'm not sure how good the flak is supposed to be on Der Fuhrer, but B-29s fly pretty high anyway.

BTW: The design in question was so far beyond idiotic that it makes the H-44 class (which was itself pretty f'in stupid) seem reasonable. There isn't enough SHP in Christendom to get a 700,000 ton warship into the double digits without, at the minimum, several nuclear reactors. This thing is double the length and SEVEN TIMES the displacement of a Nimitz class CVN and 25% longer and 100,000 tons heavier than the largest ULCC ever built (and it capped out at 16 knots)
Hitler did like big, ridiculous designs after all. If he has all the resources of Europe to count on, something like this would probably end up built.

The difference here is that the U.S. can make multiple runs at the ship if it so desires since the number of available weapons is now in the double digits.
The others are being dropped on Berlin and other places. Fuhrer will catch a second nuke eventually if the first doesn't knock it out, but I think the US command would likely just assume that it was dead after the first, at least until they discover it in port a month later.

So idle curiosity on the internet
That basically defines the thread. It does kind of fit the direction that Hitler would have gone though. Really this is the Ratte of battleships.

- BNC
 

CalBear

Moderator
Donor
Monthly Donor
Able to make it back to port (if that port is <7 days sailing) if it doesn't get attacked any more, under whatever is left of its own power.


Pounding it to death with 16"s and torpedoes is going to end pretty badly considering its armour and the fact that it carries 8 Gustavs, so I can imagine someone seriously consider nuking it if built.


Which should let them turn the engines on and crawl back, no?


We are assuming normal combat conditions. I'm not sure how good the flak is supposed to be on Der Fuhrer, but B-29s fly pretty high anyway.


Hitler did like big, ridiculous designs after all. If he has all the resources of Europe to count on, something like this would probably end up built.


The others are being dropped on Berlin and other places. Fuhrer will catch a second nuke eventually if the first doesn't knock it out, but I think the US command would likely just assume that it was dead after the first, at least until they discover it in port a month later.


That basically defines the thread. It does kind of fit the direction that Hitler would have gone though. Really this is the Ratte of battleships.

- BNC
Actually the Gustav was a terrible weapon, especially in a naval setting. It could fire about once every two hours (although in a naval setting with more automation/mechanization that can probably be halved to an hour, maybe 75 minutes). The muzzle blast will kill the AAA crews, destroy the radars (and likely the manual rangefinders), and do the same to the radios (there were actually problems with 15" & 16" guns in this regard). That means no radar directed gunnery, limited communications, and the chances of actually managing to hit a moving target at one round per gun an hour would be pure luck. A Montana or Iowa would have WAY more trouble with a Yamato or even the already fairly ridiculous H-44.

Actually the way to kill it is with either a sub or carrier aircraft. The AAA defenses are no great shakes, not really, and no matter how much armor you put on the ship (and there is a very finite amount of weight available, especially of you are putting guns that weight 1,500 TONS (or 10X the weight of a U.S. 16"/50 Mark 7) each there are still areas of vulnerability. The ship armor scheme was also, perhaps surprisingly, vulnerable to the USN 2,700 pound super heavy AP shell (with a zone of invulnerability between 30 & 35K yards). The belt is also vulnerable to the USN torpedo family (Mark 13, 14, 15) since it was proposed to be the same as the Yamato class (both ships in that class were torn to pieces by air dropped torpedoes). The shaft/screws and rudders would also be vulnerable to torpedoes.
 
Takes a while to build such a beast...

How long to commission nuclear torpedoes ? What tube-size would you need ? Should they be 'deck mounted' on sub, or would you just tear half the bow off and replace several standard tubes with an 'F-Killer' ??
 
Takes a while to build such a beast...

How long to commission nuclear torpedoes ? What tube-size would you need ? Should they be 'deck mounted' on sub, or would you just tear half the bow off and replace several standard tubes with an 'F-Killer' ??

Little Boy was 28" in diameter.
However, it didn't take long to shrink, once it was determined it was needed. Could get it down to 18-21" no problem
Little_Boy_Internal_Components.png


The 'Elsie' aka Light Case aka Mk 8 was 14.5" diameter gun type, 3200 pounds in 1951
750px-Mk8-pic2.jpg

It was made as a ground penetrator, 22 feet of concrete, or 5" of Armor plate
 

Archibald

Banned
and mounting Gustav guns at 31.5

As said above, Gustav would be a terrible naval gun.But you can't deny the coolness factor of the thing.

How about a "Monitor uber alles" with a single Gustav ?
 
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