With a PoD no earlier than the Perry Expedition, could Japan ever realistically acquire some land in the Scramble for Africa? Something to the extent of Britain, France, or even Germany or Italy would be highly unlikely, but could the Japanese pull something off like what the Cossacks attempted to do in Sagallou? Or could they make a small protectorate along the east coast of Africa near Kenya or Zanzibar?
Could Japan ever get colonies in Africa?
- Thread starter Ellie
- Start date
They could definitely try. Top kek 
Imagined a Ronin renegade army going against the Ethiopian empire.
Imagined a Ronin renegade army going against the Ethiopian empire.
Damn, I guess we learn something new everyday. I had no idea this happened
Regarding Japan, perhaps their interest lay in eastern Asia... they did conquered Southeastern Asia in the Interwar period. I have no idea of what would be their interest in sending people to Africa.
Maybe have Japan gain Djibouti and then build an extensive railway network in Ethiopia and turn it into an economic colony. Have one of Japan's railways go to Woldiya, Mekele and Bahir Dar in the North, and another be like the OTL French Railway in the middle linking Djibouti to Addis Ababa. Japan could perhaps use political instability after Menelik's death to formally conquer the territory and rule in collaboration with the Ethiopian Aristocracy and perhaps Haile Sellasie? Assuming Japan still fights as an axis power in World War two, I wonder what would happen to Ethiopia then?
I wonder if Italy and Japan were to go to war, the Japanese would be inclined to snatch Italian Somaliland for themselves purely out of prestige.
Also yes, the Cossack colony is... quite strange.
I don't think the Japanese could even reach Somaliland for war, they haven't even got Korea or China yet. And they're much larger(and easier!) targets.
Since access to eastern Africa would be along Britain's lines of communication/trade in Hong Kong, Singapore, and India; perhaps as part of a Japanese-British entente of sorts? Britain allows Japan access to the area while pressuring the French to stay away. Before 1900 especially, this leaves Japanese connections to their colonies entirely dependent on Britain. The French are crowded out of some African holdings without actual British claims in competition. It might make for an earlier British influence on Japanese military development, with British army advisors instead of German ones, and lessen the later bifurcation between the IJA and IJN. The IJA might be both developed and deployed as a colonial force which may give it a sufficient reason for being that adventures in China/Korea are butterflied somewhat.
How all this plays out regarding Russia/Japan/Britain alliances could be interesting.
How all this plays out regarding Russia/Japan/Britain alliances could be interesting.
Napoleonrules
Banned
Definitely need British assistance or at least acceptance, otherwise you're right, this would be ASB. Which means no taking of any islands in the Indian Ocean. Even taking French territory I think is getting too aggressive, French and British relations have already thawed significantly by this time period, this isnt the hey-day of George III or Napoleon I. Russia's adventure was ad hoc and very amateurish, I doubt the Czar even knew about beforehand, it was that unofficial he wasn't even told "hey, someone is doing this" until too late.
Britain has no reason to say "take this", and isn't going to give up something valuable like Zanzibar or Kenya. Italian supply lines would be shorter in a fight over Somalia... but if the British and French support the Japanese and close the Suez Canal to Somalia warships and transports that could give the Japanese a fighting chance, but doubtful. If we take the OP that you have to be no earlier than 1850s, and figure you have to be no later than 1900 (everything's pretty much claimed by then, especially the coast); that's a small time frame for Japan. Plus in 1885 you have the principle of effective occupation set in, which puts Japan in the position of not just planting a flag and getting natives to acknowledge your superiority but having to actually settle and establish
Key stopping point: Why would they want to?
Up until the first sino-japanese war Japan was absolutely NOT an imperial power. It was still living with the sort of major inferiority complex that was typical of nations in the Chinese cultural sphere.
It regarded itself as a third or fourth rate nation and that was how the world saw it.
Its primary objective was short term survival, secondary objective long term survival. It isn't going to be going on adventures in Africa when it still sees the major threats lying in China and Russia.
Until Korea is secured as friendly in some way, it isn't doing anything.
The best I could maybe see happening is they manage to get a German port city/area of a port city after WW1...but that would take some major changes to make happen.
Up until the first sino-japanese war Japan was absolutely NOT an imperial power. It was still living with the sort of major inferiority complex that was typical of nations in the Chinese cultural sphere.
It regarded itself as a third or fourth rate nation and that was how the world saw it.
Its primary objective was short term survival, secondary objective long term survival. It isn't going to be going on adventures in Africa when it still sees the major threats lying in China and Russia.
Until Korea is secured as friendly in some way, it isn't doing anything.
The best I could maybe see happening is they manage to get a German port city/area of a port city after WW1...but that would take some major changes to make happen.
Going by the OP's guidelines...Probably not.
An earlier opening might let it happen, but it's still a bit of a toss-up.
An earlier opening might let it happen, but it's still a bit of a toss-up.
Nope,if they tried most of Europe would push them out and then come down on Japan hard,and if Japan was still determined to try to bite off more then could chew,a European invasion of the Home Islands might put a permanent end to Japanese colonial adventures.
The only way Japan could be able grab African territory would be to have an earlier POD such as Hideyoshi succeeding in grabbing territory in East Asia and have continual contact with the West.
The only way Japan could be able grab African territory would be to have an earlier POD such as Hideyoshi succeeding in grabbing territory in East Asia and have continual contact with the West.
Basically, the entire "Scramble for Africa" would have to be pushed back a generation. This isn't entirely unlikely as I've long held the belief that the "Scramble for Africa" was a fad that might have been avoided under the right circumstances.
If you could wank Japan into an empire 2-4 hudred years before they had one otl, I can imagine a world where the British and Japanese divide up the world. It would take a cocky Britain that never makes any friends in Europe, and who majorly distrust the US, maybe for losing Canada. The British identify with this new island based empire, while assuming they could conquer it if necassary, while the Japanese assume the same. However with so many potential gains, the two utilize the friendship to try to push all others out of colonialization. In this tl I'd imagine the British developing a nazi-ish identity as a master race, with the Japanese being looked at the same as otl Nazis did. Oh, and they would definelty turn on each other eventually, but point is I could imagine Japan getting a little of Africa so no other European does in such a scenario.
But how to get Japan there without going asb? I don't know enough to say it's possible, especially without butterflying quite a bit, though with a pod in the 1600s in Japan, European colonialism may go roughly the same for a while, so there's a decent portion of time to work with at least.
But how to get Japan there without going asb? I don't know enough to say it's possible, especially without butterflying quite a bit, though with a pod in the 1600s in Japan, European colonialism may go roughly the same for a while, so there's a decent portion of time to work with at least.
Admiral Beez
Banned
Best hope for the latter is in Sept 1940, at the same time Japan takes over FIC, IJN force lands at Madagascar.