Could industrialization have occurred without gunpowder?

You guys seem to be skipping the huge impact of the crossbow, which significantly proletarianized warfare in Western Europe before hand-held guns were prevalent. As with guns, crossbows made long term training unnecessary in order to have an effective range arm, and even more so in siege warfare. The degree to which the crossbow upset the social hierarchy was such that usage of it...not the gun...was grounds for excommunication. Crossbows are underrepresented in historical fiction because so much if that is British oriented, ie the glamour of the longbow...but crossbows played a huge role in undermining feudalism.

Oh definitely agreed- I'd argue that a gun is mechanically much more simple, though. You're totally right that it continued what the crossbow started.
 
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