Could Hitler Of Won The War If...

You seem to want to play down Germany's strength in maintaining control over europe?
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Key word there is maintaining, buddy. If it starts to crumble almost immediately, that doesn't really count.

Come on man, I know you want to this to happen, but it's not just going to happen. It's the "fetch" of alternate history. In fact, you'd have better luck with a WW1 sealion than a WW2 one. Or maybe even a Fascist France after the 1934 incident allying with Germany. That in itself is not very plausible, but Germany winning WW2 by your methods is so implausible that literally anything looks more likely in comparison
 

Saphroneth

Banned
Not just developing more of everything but the technology if Hitler had paid more attention to quality instead of quantity. If Hitler had got to power in 1929 he would of had a whole 10 years to prepare for war.
He can't.
He literally CAN NOT get into power in 1929, there were no elections. In the 1928 elections his party got less than 3% of the vote.

At this point I'm close to telling you to go away and read an actual history book, your posts are sounding increasingly like they're based off a half-remembered history class from years previously and a couple of programs on the History Channel.
 

SeaPony

Banned
Since you are so pessimistic about Germany being able to win the war then I ask you this.

In any situation ever possible could Germany ever win the war? People/personalities/events/weather could all change.
 
. People on this forum can tell you what modifications to a Bf109 would require re-specifying the aircraft and which are simply not doable, all the shortcomings of the design of USS Alaska, and the particulars of USSR doctrine in 1945.

(Deadpan): ... and then there was Ovaron.
 

Saphroneth

Banned
So it is not alternate? Just tweaked?
Our definition of alternate may be what you'd call tweaked.
One of the most famous and best written timelines on this forum is an alternate version of the Battle of France. I commend it to you as an example of what Alternate History on this forum is.
 

SeaPony

Banned
He can't.
He literally CAN NOT get into power in 1929, there were no elections. In the 1928 elections his party got less than 3% of the vote.

At this point I'm close to telling you to go away and read an actual history book, your posts are sounding increasingly like they're based off a half-remembered history class from years previously and a couple of programs on the History Channel.

I know he failed in 1923 but he launched a coup in which he took over government. But now you will tell me he would of been killed or something.
 

Tovarich

Banned
Hitler using Slavic allies to fight Stalin is out of the question. He just wouldn't do it. His mentality was that of a psycho pokemon trainer. "Got to kill them all"
Nope. First, the Nazis couldn't cooperate with Ukraine. They had to sieze the food supplies of the people in order to keep their armies moving, and people who are starting to starve are notoriously unlikely to be happy with the invader. In addition, Nazi doctrine calls for the murder of most of the Ukrainian population, and keeping the remainder as slave labor. It was called Generalplan Ost, look it up if you feel like not sleeping for a few weeks.

And yet, it happened....at least until those sections of 1940s Ukraine susceptible to Nazi propaganda realised they had been conned (too late!) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_collaborationism_with_the_Axis_powers
(Yeah yeah, only wikipedia, blah blah, but they're not always wrong and Nazi Germany was hardly unique in using the divide-&-rule tactic.)

Sorry, but no. If you want to read an excellent World War II TL however I would recommend CalBear's Anglo/American-Nazi War, which follows the Anglo/American efforts to defeat the Reich following a Soviet collapse in 1943.
I second that recommendation; and unlike reading Generalplan Ost, you can comfort yourself afterwards by whispering "it's not real.....it's only a story!":eek:
This is an alternate reality where Hitler was more strategic than ideological. He should of paid more attention to what the Americans were doing developing the atomic bomb and should of sent spies to sabotage the development of them.

This is an alternate reality where Hitler is more strategic. Strategy comes before ideology.

As has often been pointed out, that would mean the Nazis & Hitler not actually being the Nazis and Hitler.

But if you have such a TL in mind, please write it and post to the ASB forum.
ASB gets spoken of as if it's some kind of gulag for erring AH writers, but it's underrated and much enthralling fiction is there.
 
Again it is an alternate history, Hitler can have a different personality.
This comes up a lot, so it's time for AH 101:

You can change a historical figures' personality as the POD, but you can't then have everything go the same. Hitler is a prime example. He was an extreme risk taker, a complete racist, and a Social Darwinist who believed that war was the highest state of humanity. All of these traits and more informed his decisions. So a Hitler who is more sane (which probably means less of a risk taker and more inclined to listen to advice) won't stage the Beer Hall Putsch (which probably averts him coming to power in the first place), won't stare the Allies down over Austria, Czechoslovakia, and Poland, won't invade France through the Ardennes (which few thought was a viable option), and won't invade Russia expecting "one kick and the whole rotten structure will collapse." In short, his career will be absolutely different.
 

Saphroneth

Banned
Since you are so pessimistic about Germany being able to win the war then I ask you this.

In any situation ever possible could Germany ever win the war? People/personalities/events/weather could all change.
It depends on the war.
If the war is the one they started in 1939 by invading Poland... then the only way they could would be to force France out of the war very quickly (as they did in our timeline) and then frighten Britain into peace.
That may be feasible!

If you include the war against the USSR, then no. Germany can't win that war, the USSR can lose it by collapsing but even then Germany just has the mother of all Vietnams.

If you also include the war against the US then it would take almost literal divine intervention. Germany's too weak, the US is too strong, and there's too much space between them for Germany to take them out before they get to harness that power.
 

TFSmith121

Banned
Bairoch via Kennedy, 1938

Total industrial potential of the powers in 1938, UK in 1900 as 100

US - 528
GE - 214
UK - 181
SU - 152
JA - 88
FR - 74
IT - 37

The US alone has more than twice as much capacity as Germany...

Relative shares of world manufacturing output, 1938:

US - 31.4
GE - 12.7
UK - 10.7
SU - 9
FR - 4.4
IT - 2.8

Germany can chose from several strategic options in 1938-39 - war with the Soviets over Central Europe; war with the Soviets over Eastern Europe; war with the British and French over Western Europe; all of the above (smart one, that:rolleyes:), war with the British, Soviets, and French, war with the British, Soviets, and Americans, or peace and staying home to manufacture small but well-engineered cars.

They can't do all of the above.

Best,
 

Saphroneth

Banned
I know he failed in 1923 but he launched a coup in which he took over government. But now you will tell me he would of been killed or something.
The Munich Putsch?

That was a couple of hundred people in a beer hall deciding to take over the government. Football hooligans are more threatening.
 

SeaPony

Banned
It depends on the war.
If the war is the one they started in 1939 by invading Poland... then the only way they could would be to force France out of the war very quickly (as they did in our timeline) and then frighten Britain into peace.
That may be feasible!

If you include the war against the USSR, then no. Germany can't win that war, the USSR can lose it by collapsing but even then Germany just has the mother of all Vietnams.

If you also include the war against the US then it would take almost literal divine intervention. Germany's too weak, the US is too strong, and there's too much space between them for Germany to take them out before they get to harness that power.
If Germany developed the atom bomb in 1942 then they could force America in peace. But that would be 'impossible' by some people on here although that is alternate history.
 

SeaPony

Banned
The Munich Putsch?

That was a couple of hundred people in a beer hall deciding to take over the government. Football hooligans are more threatening.

I know it was a joke and that was actually impossible to think that would be successful but the Nazi party had larger numbers and could of taken part in a coup.
 
The German Economy , as others have said could not support a military build up bigger than what they did in OTL. Germany could have just about beaten the soviet union, but that would involve the soviet union making a even bigger mess of the defence. However, Hitler setting up puppet Baltic states and possibly a puppet Ukraine isn't impossible, but Hitler was a psychopath who didn't make clear decisions and thought the war could still be won in 1945. He was also on a large selection of interesting narcotics by the end of the war. Even if hitler could defeat the soviet union, he would most likely have to offer major concessions to get out of the war, such as france, Benelux, and Greece.
 

SeaPony

Banned
The German Economy , as others have said could not support a military build up bigger than what they did in OTL. Germany could have just about beaten the soviet union, but that would involve the soviet union making a even bigger mess of the defence. However, Hitler setting up puppet Baltic states and possibly a puppet Ukraine isn't impossible, but Hitler was a psychopath who didn't make clear decisions and thought the war could still be won in 1945. He was also on a large selection of interesting narcotics by the end of the war. Even if hitler could defeat the soviet union, he would most likely have to offer major concessions to get out of the war, such as france, Benelux, and Greece.
If his personality was different then the outcome would be different. Alternate history cannot change personalities now?
 
If Germany developed the atom bomb in 1942 then they could force America in peace. But that would be 'impossible' by some people on here although that is alternate history.

Once again, I recommend you go and read A Blunted Sickle. This will yhow you exactly what post 1900 AH is about.
 

Saphroneth

Banned
I know it was a joke and that was actually impossible to think that would be successful but the Nazi party had larger numbers and could of taken part in a coup.
No, the Weimar Republic was a democracy and was fairly stable in the middle years. It took the Nazis being the largest party in the Reichstag in the middle of an apocalyptic depression to get Hitler into power via a coup! And even then he had to have special laws passed to get him the ability to circumvent the Reichstag.

Your view of history is kind of cartoony.
 
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