Could Hitler have sold Greenland, Iceland and the Faroes to the USA?

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Unlike other countries the Danish government had no free equivalent.

Suppose Hitler decides to try to appease America, and build a schism between Britain and America. Say allies invade Norway and Sweden first is the pod.

Could Hitler pressure the Danish to make the offer? Would the USA buy it? Would anyone? (Spain?)
 
No, the only reason the English invaded them is to keep them out of the hands of the Germans. The only reason we took them over is to free up British forces.
 
Does this only exist to make references to politics?

Certainly the discussion about the matter brought it into my head but I'm writing a WW2 timeline where the New Order is established and I wondered what the approach would be to that.

OTL immediately after the war the USA sought to purchase Greenland from Denmark.

For Denmark and Hitler Greenland, Iceland and the Faroes are less than worthless. They cannot be defended. Why not sell them? What's the downside? Highest bidder if you want. Give them to the Soviets to cause rifts in the Allies, etc.

For the USA and the UK they were a vital part of the G I UK gap which protects the Atlantic, however the violation of neutrality that both invasions were needlessly hurt the UK's international reputation. If they were Allied territory and part of the war the efforts there would not be hampered so much.

In this timeline they're reeling even more because they invaded Norway first so the USA is not happy with the Allies. Roosevelt probably wants some way of improving their standing and purchasing some land is a good distraction.

Would the USA congress allow this? Still very neutral, for Greenland the Monroe Doctrine can be invoked. Similar to bases for destroyers.
 
Greenland wasn't Hitler's to sell; since Germany never annexed Denmark, Greenland and Iceland belonged to the Danish crown. But suppose Germany annexed Denmark or compelled Denmark to sell Greenland and Iceland for some quick cash, the United States would be unlikely to take up the offer. Even under a pro-Axis President (which would probably require a POD of 1932 or earlier), the U.S Senate would reject a treaty which would recognize or condone the Nazi takeover of Denmark (which such a transfer of territory would entail). Only if a William Dudley Pellet type were a dictatorial President and if the Axis won the war in Europe would such an event be possible.
 

Devvy

Donor
Unlike other countries the Danish government had no free equivalent.

Suppose Hitler decides to try to appease America, and build a schism between Britain and America. Say allies invade Norway and Sweden first is the pod.

Could Hitler pressure the Danish to make the offer? Would the USA buy it? Would anyone? (Spain?)

Greenland wasn't Hitler's to sell; since Germany never annexed Denmark, Greenland and Iceland belonged to the Danish crown. But suppose Germany annexed Denmark or compelled Denmark to sell Greenland and Iceland for some quick cash, the United States would be unlikely to take up the offer.

Not completely sure about Greenland, so I won't refute that, but Denmark (and thus the occupying Hitler) couldn't sell Iceland; it was already independent!

The Danish-Icelandic Act of 1920 made Iceland a fully independent and sovereign nation, not part of Denmark. It was in personal union with Denmark under the same King, and Denmark provided some services to Iceland (defence, foreign affairs, a supreme court until Iceland established one, reciprocal citizenship rights), but the country was independent and could not be legislated for or controlled by the Danish Government. Iceland-Denmark relations are more similar to UK-Canada relations at the time - and there's no way that the UK could sell Canada to the USA during WW2.

This question (regarding Iceland) seems to come up every few months, and my answer is always the same! :)
 
Iceland was a independent kingdom in union with Denmark so it couldn’t legal be sold, Faroese Islands was occupied by UK, while Greenland was run by the Danish ambassador in Washington. As Hitler lacked control over any part of the Danish commonwealth outside the mainland, he wasn’t able to sell it.
 

Deleted member 94680

This question (regarding Iceland) seems to come up every few months, and my answer is always the same!

You’re going to have to keep on banging that drum, I’m afraid.

Its always useful to the board as a whole when those with knowledge chip in to keep us on the straight and narrow.
 
Its like asking whether Saddam Hussein could have sold Kuwait to the USA. For the USA to buy any conquered territories off Hitler would have meant that the US government and people recognised the legality of annexing territories by conquest, which is extremely unlikely. Given that the US navy had hundreds of times the fighting power of the Kriegsmarine, the whole question seems a bit implausible.
 
Not any chances. Hitler should firstly invade these places and it would be even more harder thing than that Sea Mammal thing. And these were still technically under Danish government and Denmark wasn't annexed by Germany. It was still indepednent kingdom under German occupation. It was even allowed keep its own pre-war government.

And even if Germany with some unbelieveable miraclous way manage capture Greenland, Iceland and Faroes, even Hitler is not stupid enough to sell such strategically important places to potential enemy. USA was stongly anti-Nazi so it would be just super-idiotic give these places to USA. Even Hitler can't reach such level.
 
Fair enough on Iceland, but presumably Greenland must be able to be sold by Denmark or there would never have been the discussion in OTL. If it's a personal union for Iceland and the Faroe Islands then the King could be pressured to sell or transfer ownership to the USA.

Regarding acknowledgement of German territorial gains, the USA acknowledged Vichy France did they not? Did they break diplomatic connections with occupied Denmark? Were Denmark expelled from the League of Nations? I'd be interested to see something like the who acknowledges Taiwan with countries over time in WW2.

What kind of peace deal would be required for the USA to acknowledge that Denmark could sell Greenland? Would Britain need to have agreed to peace first?

Presumably if Britain peaces out and Germany wins the USA will not be happy about Greenland and Iceland. Would Britain really be ok with giving up the Faroes and allowing Nazis to establish a base there? I doubt it even if they accepted peace. With that in mind both have a big incentive to take the lands, either for money or during peace negotiations.

Not any chances. Hitler should firstly invade these places and it would be even more harder thing than that Sea Mammal thing. And these were still technically under Danish government and Denmark wasn't annexed by Germany. It was still indepednent kingdom under German occupation. It was even allowed keep its own pre-war government.

And even if Germany with some unbelieveable miraclous way manage capture Greenland, Iceland and Faroes, even Hitler is not stupid enough to sell such strategically important places to potential enemy. USA was stongly anti-Nazi so it would be just super-idiotic give these places to USA. Even Hitler can't reach such level.

That Denmark is still under its own government is why it should be allowed to sell its own possessions.

Hitler cannot keep those places unless he beats the USA navy so its not worth keeping them until long distance planes and missiles come into it.
 

Devvy

Donor
If it's a personal union for Iceland then the King could be pressured to sell or transfer ownership to the USA.

It's the 20th Century, by this point it's well established that rule is with a constitutional monarch, and exercised by the Althingi - Icelandic Parliament as the successor to the Danish Parliament. I doubt that the Danish King could hand over the reigns even if he wanted to. Legally speaking (as a complete legal non-expert!), the treaty establishing the Kingdom of Iceland placed it in a personal union with Denmark until 1940, at which point the personal union could be renegotiated, or scrapped with 3 years notice (as they did in OTL). Such a theoretical transfer of sovereignty would run against that treaty and domestic laws implementing it's provisions.

Realistically, there is no way the Icelanders would agree to such a transfer. They, as a clearly identified people and cultural group, spent virtually a millenium under Norwegian or Danish rule, and have just regained full independence and sovereignty, with Denmark supporting them. No way they'll consent, even passively, to just handing it away to a some foreigners who have no affinity for Nordic, let alone Icelandic, culture. If such a thing was attempted, you can be certain there'll be appeals to the Danish Supreme Court to deal with it, an attempt to dispose of the King and establish a Republic earlier (as many citizens wanted in their hearts in 1918, but didn't want to bite off more then they could chew in one go) in Iceland, and absolutely no desire to accommodate any kind of western/NATO military base in Iceland in future (so no Keflavik Air Base for the US).

Edit: Just to add to this, here are the relevant passages of the 1920 Icelandic Constitution (see below). The King can not amend who inherits the crown without the approval of the Icelandic Parliament, he must swear an oath to the Icelandic Constitution, his powers are supreme but limited by the Constitution, and he can not make any foreign agreements which make obligations of territory or territorial waters without the consent of Parliament.

Article 3
The decree of royal inheritance is that which is stated in Articles 1 and 2. royal succession law of July 31, 1853. Royal inheritances may not be changed, except with the approval of Parliament.
Article 6
The king swears an oath to the constitution when he comes to the state, provided he has not worked on that oath while he was a state heir. Of this oath, two identical originals shall be made. The Althingi will stores one, and the National Archives collects the other.
Article 9
The king has supreme power in all affairs of the state, with the restrictions, which is set out in this Constitution, and he has the Minister to implement it. Ministry is based in Reykjavik.
Article 17
The king makes agreements with other states. However, he can make no such agreements, if they imply surrender or obligations on land or territorial waters, or if they look to change them unless the approval of the Althing is passed.
 
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Unlike other countries the Danish government had no free equivalent.

Suppose Hitler decides to try to appease America, and build a schism between Britain and America. Say allies invade Norway and Sweden first is the pod.

Could Hitler pressure the Danish to make the offer? Would the USA buy it? Would anyone? (Spain?)
Firstly You cant sell what you don't legally own, and secondly sales made under duress are not binding in law.
 
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