Could Germany have invaded Britain in 1942/1943 if...

  • Germany did not invade Russia.
  • After the fall of France Germany focuses solely on defeating Britain.
  • Germany abandons Sea lion realising it is impossible in 1940
  • No DOW against USA
  • German focus on gaining air superiority rather than Blitz
  • Increases ship building - capital ships/destroyers/transport craft
  • Germany develops torpedo bombers and other methods of securing the English Channel (it has years to do this)
  • Massive increase in submarine production to attack Atlantic convoys.

This is not a sea lion thread!!

I understand that this would mean Germany reducing its expansion of the army, and Hitler would be unlikely to do this as he had his eyes fixed on Russia. But if Hitler had more accurate intel as to the strength of the Russians he may have decided to eliminate Britain first at all costs, even if it took a few years.
 
I am interested in this. I assume it is more likely if Hitler died.

I also wonder about \North Africa and the Middle East with a long postponement of Barabarosa.
 
  • Germany did not invade Russia.
  • After the fall of France Germany focuses solely on defeating Britain.
  • Germany abandons Sea lion realising it is impossible in 1940
  • No DOW against USA
  • German focus on gaining air superiority rather than Blitz
  • Increases ship building - capital ships/destroyers/transport craft
  • Germany develops torpedo bombers and other methods of securing the English Channel (it has years to do this)
  • Massive increase in submarine production to attack Atlantic convoys.

This is not a sea lion thread!!

I understand that this would mean Germany reducing its expansion of the army, and Hitler would be unlikely to do this as he had his eyes fixed on Russia. But if Hitler had more accurate intel as to the strength of the Russians he may have decided to eliminate Britain first at all costs, even if it took a few years.

So yet again Hitler abandons all his strategic priorities to invade Britain for no good reason. If Hitlerhad accurate intel on the Russians he would not wait; he would realize that would simply strengthen the Russians. Britain alone, which is what you have specified, is not a strategic threat to Germany the USSR is.

You also seem to assume the US is simply passive in all this. Roosevelt was doing everything in his power to bring about war with Germany and increased attacks on the convoys will just make that easier.

And I really would like to know what is this obsession with seeing the most odious regimes in history crush Britain? The odd thread I could understand but the seemingly endless stream of hitler-hugging fantasies is getting beyond a joke.
 
German DoW on USA didn't matter. the USA was going to join against the Germans after Pearl Harbor anyway.
 

sharlin

Banned
This isn't a sealion thread.


Yes.


Yes it is.

Hitler and friends would still need to spend years building up the capability to get forces across, and if they do that then the UK will be far better prepared. Also what you (Hitler and friends) have been shrieking about since the late 20s (Lebensraum, the threat of communism, the inferiority of the slavs etc) is suddenly forgotten, all that wonderful indoctrination to dehumanise your 'true enemy' is thrown out the window..why exactly?

Other than 'in der furher's face'

Also every month you give the Soviets gives them a chance to re-arm and re-organise and also get you (Hitler and Friends) to lean more and more on the economic support the Soviets are giving you (resources) whilst your econimy which is dependent on smash and grab conquering runs more and more out of control.
 

Anaxagoras

Banned
Increases ship building - capital ships/destroyers/transport craft

It's not just building physical ships. You need to have well-trained and experienced crews for those ships if you're going to take on the Royal Navy. It takes a lot more time and expense to train a navy crewman than it does to train an infantry soldier, because their jobs are so much more technical.
 
So yet again Hitler abandons all his strategic priorities to invade Britain for no good reason. If Hitlerhad accurate intel on the Russians he would not wait; he would realize that would simply strengthen the Russians. Britain alone, which is what you have specified, is not a strategic threat to Germany the USSR is.

You also seem to assume the US is simply passive in all this. Roosevelt was doing everything in his power to bring about war with Germany and increased attacks on the convoys will just make that easier.

And I really would like to know what is this obsession with seeing the most odious regimes in history crush Britain? The odd thread I could understand but the seemingly endless stream of hitler-hugging fantasies is getting beyond a joke.

Why? Because after the USA, the nation people wish to see knocked down several pegs is Perfidious Albion; even if it's Nazi Germany doing the knocking.
 
Why? Because after the USA, the nation people wish to see knocked down several pegs is Perfidious Albion; even if it's Nazi Germany doing the knocking.

It was sort of a rhetorical question. :) But it is amazing how many people appear to be fixated on this idea. It seems like not a week goes by without yet another attempt to imagine a means by which you end up with the Swastika flying over London.
 

sharlin

Banned
To quote Sir David Kelly to the German Ambassador.

If you think we're going to gamble on Herr Hitler's guarantees, you're making a grave mistake. All those years in England seems to have left you none the wiser. We're not easily frightened. Also we know how hard it is for an army to cross the Channel. The last little Corporal who tried came a cropper. So don't threaten or dictate to us until you're marching up Whitehall... and even then we won't listen.
 
I think a much more interesting question would be how would British strategy change in 1940 if they realized Sealion was impossible? That the German invasion threat was essentially a bluff?
 

sharlin

Banned
More forces for the middle east, not the far east as the Japanese were not seen as a threat which could have meant a far harder time for the Italians (not that they got an easy one anyhow). Earlier introduction of the 6lber perhaps instead of the invasion panic.
 

sharlin

Banned
Why? Because after the USA, the nation people wish to see knocked down several pegs is Perfidious Albion; even if it's Nazi Germany doing the knocking.


Nah normally its "WHat if the US was utterly retarded and let the Japanesesse invade Hwaaiii" or "What if the americans nuked greenland, Rockall and half the middle east?" When it comes to America, you're either pants on head, paint drinking retards or rabid neo-crusaders out to purge the middle east because someone in derkaderkastan looked at you funny.

England at least once a week goes full retard, decides that using a full magazine in its warships as a BBQ site is a dashing good idea what what and the RAF mechanics think that suddenly Watermelons can fix all that ails their aircraft. CIGS also thinks that wode and spears are the way to deal with Jerry's tanks and SMGs.

France surrenders because someone in Germany (near the back) dropped a plate and saucepan and it was loud.

Russians have this playing in the background http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocW3fBqPQkU as they die in their millions, blundering around, drunk and get shot by Commissars.

Italy is suddenly a 1st rate power than a 2nd rate (at best) punching bag and giver of 'crap army' jokes that usually blend into something about the French in WW2 as well.

Japan suddenly has a grasp of armoured warfare and a Japan is Strong logistics trail.

German troops can catch bullets in their teeth, have Tiger II's from day one of the war and ALL THE CARRIERS.


Such is a week on the AH After 1900 discussions board. And yes I am not being serious...kinda...*glances at the Germans and what comes up with them at least once a week...*
 
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As is Hitler would not be able to invade Britain but if Hitler was rejected for the German army and meets a German naval officer Gunther Luck on his way to Kiel now that would make an interesting time line. He meets Raeder gets injured at jutland and gets transferred to uboats where he meets one Karl Donitz. On the last cruise gets injured again when a british destroyer depth charges his boat, he uses his body to reduce the sound of the hammering of the engines trying to punch a hole in the hull.
 
I think a much more interesting question would be how would British strategy change in 1940 if they realized Sealion was impossible? That the German invasion threat was essentially a bluff?

This would be one of the many consequences:

More forces for the middle east, not the far east as the Japanese were not seen as a threat which could have meant a far harder time for the Italians (not that they got an easy one anyhow). Earlier introduction of the 6lber perhaps instead of the invasion panic.

But there are plenty of others. The British would be less panicked and for example will go less nuts on fighter production with the Ministry of Aircraft Production at the cost of pretty much everything else, such as naval construction and munitions IIRC. That would actually be a double advantage, considering that the MAP under Beaverbrook was a failure anyways and much of it's well-published 'successes' were actually the result of steps taken prior to the MAP's establishment.

It would probably require something like a less disastrous campaign in France for the Allies to have less panic. France continuing the fight from the non-continental possessions would do that.
 

sharlin

Banned
As is Hitler would not be able to invade Britain but if Hitler was rejected for the German army and meets a German naval officer Gunther Luck on his way to Kiel now that would make an interesting time line. He meets Raeder gets injured at jutland and gets transferred to uboats where he meets one Karl Donitz. On the last cruise gets injured again when a british destroyer depth charges his boat, he uses his body to reduce the sound of the hammering of the engines trying to punch a hole in the hull.

Un...what? I don't quite get what you're trying to say here.
 
This would be one of the many consequences:



But there are plenty of others. The British would be less panicked and for example will go less nuts on fighter production with the Ministry of Aircraft Production at the cost of pretty much everything else, such as naval construction and munitions IIRC. That would actually be a double advantage, considering that the MAP under Beaverbrook was a failure anyways and much of it's well-published 'successes' were actually the result of steps taken prior to the MAP's establishment.

It would probably require something like a less disastrous campaign in France for the Allies to have less panic. France continuing the fight from the non-continental possessions would do that.

I was thinking perhaps they get some intelligence on all the doubts about Sealion being expressed amongst the German High Command. One other consequences that occurs to me is more RN assets released for convoy duty reducing shipping losses.
 
Ok if Hitler gets rejected for the army he meets Gunther Luck who persuades him to join the German high seas fleet, the Butterfly's would be huge. One Hitler gets grounded in his training EG more disciplined, plus it would mean a stronger krigsmarine in ww2. Raeder under sees the new class of ships the aircraft carrier and it would mean a more even footing with the RN.
 

sharlin

Banned
Raeder under sees the new class of ships the aircraft carrier and it would mean a more even footing with the RN.

*winces* you're going to make me do it ain't you...


https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=234421 Best Axiswank thread EU. (Seriously it is a comedy goldmine. As you can tell, later on we gave up trying to educate the writer and just ended out having a laugh. Also it gave rise to the term NotNazi's.)

Oh and don't forget this drumroll of 'dafuq!?' moments:

https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=230089&highlight=Frisian+Islands

although then again the OP was basically a troll and trying to get people who like the WAllies to react angrilly and start arguing. Instead folks just picked everything he wrote apart.

YOU BROUGHT THIS ON YOURSELF!
 
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