Could Eisenhower have abandoned Diem and eventually South Vietnam?

Eisenhower and Dulles's state department backed Ngo Dinh Diem because they saw no alternative to communist rule in Vietnam. This was against advice of French and Joint Chiefs of Staff

How much did Eisenhower have room to maneuver? He was kicking Stevensons butt in 1955 presidential campaignt and Vietnam was a non issue. So if he decided and he couldn't succeed with Diem and certainly not without him, could he have pulled the plug in 1955? How about in the beginning of his second term?
 
Eisenhower and Dulles's state department backed Ngo Dinh Diem because they saw no alternative to communist rule in Vietnam. This was against advice of French and Joint Chiefs of Staff

How much did Eisenhower have room to maneuver? He was kicking Stevensons butt in 1955 presidential campaignt and Vietnam was a non issue. So if he decided and he couldn't succeed with Diem and certainly not without him, could he have pulled the plug in 1955? How about in the beginning of his second term?

My understanding is that Eisenhower restricted US support to a size that could be evacuated on 24 hours notice. Specifically that the evacuation ship was kept in Saigon harbour ready to leave within that time, and US personnel were limited to a number that would fit in it, also not too far to get to the ship in that time.

I read that as a public display that the US was willing to provide limited assistance but did NOT feel any commitment to Diem. The escalation into a major war was - I am ready for the lynch mob for saying this - John Kennedy's idea, continued by LBJ.

Ike was not committed to supporting Diem if my understanding of the situation is correct. Thinking that more needed to be done to point that out beyond having the getaway car outside with the engine running might not have occurred to him. JFK might have sent 12,000 advisors to South Vietnam even if no previous commitment had been made by Eisenhower. Saint Kennedy was actually a quite right wing militaristic figure, though how much of that was the drugs is open to debate.
 
My understanding is that Eisenhower restricted US support to a size that could be evacuated on 24 hours notice. Specifically that the evacuation ship was kept in Saigon harbour ready to leave within that time, and US personnel were limited to a number that would fit in it, also not too far to get to the ship in that time.

I read that as a public display that the US was willing to provide limited assistance but did NOT feel any commitment to Diem. The escalation into a major war was - I am ready for the lynch mob for saying this - John Kennedy's idea, continued by LBJ.

Ike was not committed to supporting Diem if my understanding of the situation is correct. Thinking that more needed to be done to point that out beyond having the getaway car outside with the engine running might not have occurred to him. JFK might have sent 12,000 advisors to South Vietnam even if no previous commitment had been made by Eisenhower. Saint Kennedy was actually a quite right wing militaristic figure, though how much of that was the drugs is open to debate.

Bingo, when Ike left office there were about 1000 US military personnel in South Vietnam engaged in strictly advisory roles. Kennedy escalated the US commitment to Vietnam significantly to include involvement in actual combat operations.
 

Driftless

Donor
Ike didn't have anything to prove for the homefront about his military judgement. He had sacked top generals for cause in the past, so Diem might have gotten the same treatment - Don't try to redeem failure.
 
Bingo, when Ike left office there were about 1000 US military personnel in South Vietnam engaged in strictly advisory roles. Kennedy escalated the US commitment to Vietnam significantly to include involvement in actual combat operations.

Every president from Truman to Johnson chose to escalate American involvement rather than re-examine the policy. Eisenhower doubled then number of military advisers and sent them to the field and gave massive material assistance directly to Diem instead of through French. So Ike, Kennedy and Johnson didn't know what to do with Vietnam and like a bad gambler they doubled up instead of taking the loss.

Not trying to absolve Kennedy or Johnson, but at least they had an excuse because of the never ending crisis with Diem's late rule and successive game of musical chairs of Saigon government.

But Eisenhower choices are most interesting to me. He had the Collins report saying that Diem was not viable option, French were leaving and saying the same. McCarthy was gone by -55, JCS was against military involvement, he had second term virtually in the bag, so why didn't he pack up and leave?
 
The thing is Diem turned out to at least appear to be not so bad. Diem had basically managed to outmanoeuvre Bao Dai's supporters, crack down on the Binh Xuyen crime syndicate which was powerful along with the Hoa Hao religious group, this was against very long odds. Then again I don't If Eisenhower could write off South Vietnam with possibility of having another repeat of Korea, or something like it.
 

raharris1973

Gone Fishin'
Donor
Monthly Donor
My understanding is that Eisenhower restricted US support to a size that could be evacuated on 24 hours notice. Specifically that the evacuation ship was kept in Saigon harbour ready to leave within that time, and US personnel were limited to a number that would fit in it, also not too far to get to the ship in that time.

That's remarkable. Where did you see that? Was it in Evan Thomas' "Ike's Bluff"
 
I think there is a error here in thinking that after 1956 it Diem or the Reds. Cant see why replacements could not have been cultivated from the start. some subtly, some overtly. If it is understood Diem will 'retire' sometime during 1957-59 & 2-3 alternative candidates are available for a election then the problems of the latter Diem years might be avoided.
 
That's remarkable. Where did you see that? Was it in Evan Thomas' "Ike's Bluff"

I'm fairly sure that it was either 'Summons of the Trumpet', one of the first post-war military histories or I think the title was 'an Illustrated history of the Vietnam War'. Both of these came out came out fairly early after the fall of Saigon. Summons of the Trumpet was said to be the first military history of the American involvement, as opposed to getting sidetracked into comtemporery politics and arguments about Lyndon Johnson's domestic program re; 'The Great Society' being undermined by the war etc. Or using bits of information to support the Authors take on the 'are the North Vietnamese really nationalists or really communists' and 'are the VC really independent of North Vietnamese control' controversies.

Yes it was a while ago when I read it, but the piece of information is, as you point out remarkable. The small numbers of US advisors present and low financial commitment can be checked elsewhere. That Eisenhower era photo's of the ARVN show them with WWII surplus half-tracks, rifles, etc while Kennedy era ones show M-113 APC's and the first introduction of the M-16 rifle show a difference in willingness to spend money. Statistics of Advisor numbers are also readily available, the jump in numbers getting people calling it 'The Quicksand War'.

But that Eisenhower deliberately kept his support down to one that he could walk away from with minimum risk to personnel is important. It could be removed without most of the ARVN troops in the jungle even noticing, most advisors were in bases and office buildings away from the fight. It makes the use of the term 'Eisenhower began America's commitment to Vietnam' look very dubious. JFK's much larger advisor force was very visible to the average South Vietnamese soldier, they were a secondary officer corps and pulling them out would be a clear sign the US had given up.
 
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I think there is a error here in thinking that after 1956 it Diem or the Reds. Cant see why replacements could not have been cultivated from the start. some subtly, some overtly. If it is understood Diem will 'retire' sometime during 1957-59 & 2-3 alternative candidates are available for a election then the problems of the latter Diem years might be avoided.

Somehow, I doubt Diem will ever go softly into that sweet night...
 
In the first volume of his Presidential memoirs, Ike describes how he tried to explain to the French that Dien Bien Phu would be a strategic mistake of the highest order--a trap. Obviously, they didn't listen. That passage, one of the best in his memoirs, suggests that he would have been very reluctant to later get caught in a trap (in the larger sense) in Vietnam.
 
Yes, they overreacted after the inconclusive that was korea and wanted desperatly a 'win' who kennedy later bite the bait too.
 
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