Could Confucianism spread further?

Confucianism isn't much of a missionary religion, one could say it spread in the same way Roman culture did throughout its empire and its environs- because other societies saw that it was great, and decided to pick up on it. But could Confucianism have spread further in the world?

And no, 17th century Enlightenment Europeans being interested in it doesn't count. I'm talking about more Confucian states, maybe even the institutionalizing of Confucianism as a deistic civic religion. (Though that wasn't even much of a thing in China, I think. I don't suppose people went to temples of Confucius regularly like Abrahamics would go to church of mosque or synagogue. They'd more likely pray at folk shrines.)
 
Confucianism isn't much of a missionary religion, one could say it spread in the same way Roman culture did throughout its empire and its environs- because other societies saw that it was great, and decided to pick up on it. But could Confucianism have spread further in the world?

And no, 17th century Enlightenment Europeans being interested in it doesn't count. I'm talking about more Confucian states, maybe even the institutionalizing of Confucianism as a deistic civic religion. (Though that wasn't even much of a thing in China, I think. I don't suppose people went to temples of Confucius regularly like Abrahamics would go to church of mosque or synagogue. They'd more likely pray at folk shrines.)
Wouldn't the easiest way for this to happen is getting more countries in China's sphere of influence?
 
Well, as a ethnically Chinese, some of us do think that Confucianism is a religion, considering it do contain some elements as a religion---temples that worships Confucius and Mencius, and the agnostic-like approach of Confucius did make it debatable as whether Confucius, the leader of this system of belief, believes in gods or other supreme beings.
So in Chinese, there's another name for Confucianism---the Belief of Kong,孔教。
 
Confucianism is sorta like a national ethos that can be applied to multiple nations, thanks to being in China's cultural sphere of influence. Furthermore, it also includes political philosophy for statecraft.

So, could any of that be applicable for other states in East Asia besides the ones who were inspired in OTL?
 
Well, as a ethnically Chinese, some of us do think that Confucianism is a religion, considering it do contain some elements as a religion---temples that worships Confucius and Mencius, and the agnostic-like approach of Confucius did make it debatable as whether Confucius, the leader of this system of belief, believes in gods or other supreme beings.
So in Chinese, there's another name for Confucianism---the Belief of Kong,孔教。

Yep, it has both philosophical aspect and religious aspect to it and there has been endless debate whether it's actually a religion or not.

Sounds to me that most Chinese think of it more as a philosophy though.

Another name for it : 儒教 RuJiao.

If you want to make Confucianism spread further then Chinese culture needs to spread further too since it is an important aspect of Chinese culture.


Confucianism is sorta like a national ethos that can be applied to multiple nations, thanks to being in China's cultural sphere of influence. Furthermore, it also includes political philosophy for statecraft.

So, could any of that be applicable for other states in East Asia besides the ones who were inspired in OTL?

I'm sure it can, provided Chinese culture did spread further.

Wasn't European thinkers for a period of time (17th century ?) were interested in it ?
 
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Yeah, but like I said, Enlightenment era thinkers don't count. It's not like any faction of the French Revolutionaries tried to set up a Confucian-style society (now a Legalist one, on the other hand).

I guess Confucianism, not being an evangelical religion or even much of a religion so much as a cultural export, is dependent on the activities of Confucian countries. So for instance, take the scenario where China manages to keep northern Vietnam. Certainly Vietnamese society has always been Confucian or at least influenced, but if Nanyue was actually part of China, maybe it'd be even more Confucian. And if China gets involved in Southeast Asia more, the neighboring regions would be influenced as well.

Does anyone know why Vietnam's neighbors weren't very Confucian-influenced? Were they just too far from China?
 
Does anyone know why Vietnam's neighbors weren't very Confucian-influenced? Were they just too far from China?

Vietnam's neighbors were very deeply imbibed in the Hindu/Buddhist traditions since at least 2nd Century AD, and Vietnam/Annam was basically at war with them most of the time (particularly Champa, though also with the Khmer and later Siam). So there's that degree of cultural enmity between them.

Confucianism by itself can't really spread because it's quite ambiguous on metaphysical issues. Confucius himself argued that it is pointless to talk about spiritual issues without first fixing human issues (未能事人,焉能事鬼?). Well, I personally think that the issue of spirituality is pretty important for most people (especially back in the old days when life was more unpredictable), so as long as Confucianism doesn't create something similar conversion is going to be quite difficult and will depend very much on the power of the Chinese state to 'persuade'.

More countries in China's sphere of influence can help; a more expansionist attitude by China could help as well. If China had maintained permanent control over Central Asia I suppose we could see the nomads adopting some Confucian-Tengrist (or, very less likely, Confucian-Buddhist/Confucian-Islamic) mix. A more codified Imperial vassal system could also work, with preferred treatment for Confucian vassals and special cultural envoys for non-Confucian vassals. However, both would require Chinese dynasties to focus on foreign rather than domestic policy, which would be very much against the norm. It's also quite easy to understate the isolated-ness of the Chinese polity, with massive deserts, mountains and jungles preventing effective cultural exchange.

Despite this, of course, one should remember that for most of human history Confucianism was basically the religion of a very significant chunk of the Earth's population, which also contained its most economically developed countries - one of which was easily the size of several European/Islamic countries put together. So it's not like Confucianism never spread anywhere.
 
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Well, to be honest, Imperial China it is said/argued was just a veneer of Confucianism hiding much Legalism at times at least... Lips service to it. Officially and all.
 
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