Could a Tsarist Russia defeat the Nazis?

The whole question is impossible to answer except as an ASB thought experiment, since the survival of Czarist Russia is dependent on a host of factors that might eliminate WW1 altogether an eliminate Nazi Germany.

But just for fun, I'd say yes, assuming it also had western allies. Russia is still huge, has a large population, and if the Revolution had not occurred it would have begun WW2 with much more experienced office corps, an industrial establishment that would have at least equaled 1914 Russia (not bad), and quite possibly a better and freer scientific research establishment.

It would all depend on the basic popularity of the regime and the willingness of average Russians to fight for it. Almost certainly the Nazis would give them every reason they needed.
 
Surviving Tsarism also means slow, halting modernization, economic malaise, a military partly dominated by aristocrats, and more national unrest among non Russians. And the same forces that brought Russia down in 1917 would be at work.

The extent to which Stalin damaged the military is debatable but almost always overestimated. It was more relevant to the winter war than the Soviet German war, when much of it had been reversed.

So basically it would be the opposite of what you're claiming here.

No. A tsarist Russia would never have been driven to implement the policies of forced collectivization and forced industrialization that were crucial to the Soviet victory. Forced collectivization provided the capital for primitive socialist accumulation which in turn financed the Soviet industrial revolution and provided them with an industrial base to fight the Nazis.

Highly debatable frankly. WWI was largely timed by the fact that Russia was rapidly industrialising and improving communication links (the German High command estimated that by 1917 this would have made it impossible to avoid immediately fighting on two fronts), and frankly with how shoddy the quality was, the purges and inflated results the Second 5 Year Plan was a complete whitewash in terms of growth and the First produced results which, had the disastrous effects of War Communism been avoided may well have been achieved by the late 30s just at a slower rate.
 
Really? Wouldn't Russia remain a backwards farming state if not for the Soviet Union?

Surviving Tsarism also means slow, halting modernization, economic malaise, a military partly dominated by aristocrats, and more national unrest among non Russians. And the same forces that brought Russia down in 1917 would be at work.

The extent to which Stalin damaged the military is debatable but almost always overestimated. It was more relevant to the winter war than the Soviet German war, when much of it had been reversed.

So basically it would be the opposite of what you're claiming here.

A Tsarist Russia, still mostly agricultural, would be a walkover for the Nazis.

No. A tsarist Russia would never have been driven to implement the policies of forced collectivization and forced industrialization that were crucial to the Soviet victory. Forced collectivization provided the capital for primitive socialist accumulation which in turn financed the Soviet industrial revolution and provided them with an industrial base to fight the Nazis.

Before WWI Russia was a rapidly growing, industrializing, and modern nations.

By 1920 it was expected to have 3 times the industry capacity of Germany, a railroad system crisscrossing European Russia, a two track Trans-Siberian Railroad, and a military capable of singlehandedly defeating Germany's military. Not to mention population growth.

Give the Tsars two decades on top of that and Russia will be a monster and Barbarossa in 1942 wouldn't even compare to the curbstomp that Tsarist Russia would achieve against the Nazis.
 
Highly debatable frankly. WWI was largely timed by the fact that Russia was rapidly industrialising and improving communication links (the German High command estimated that by 1917 this would have made it impossible to avoid immediately fighting on two fronts), and frankly with how shoddy the quality was, the purges and inflated results the Second 5 Year Plan was a complete whitewash in terms of growth and the First produced results which, had the disastrous effects of War Communism been avoided may well have been achieved by the late 30s just at a slower rate.

1. Nobody planned WWI. The glory days of Russian economic growth were the 1890s and early 1900s.
2. Russia's actual performance in the war before and after 1917 against a Germany fighting on two fronts shows the extent to which these claims were hype on the part of German militarists.
3. "From 1928 to 1940, the number of Soviet workers in industry, construction, and transport grew from 4.6 million to 12.6 million..."

There are good reasons Stalin was obsessed with the idea that the country was too backwards to survive a future war.
 
If Tsarism survives there has to be no WWI, or a WWI that the Central Powers quickly lose. Both probably mean the survival of the German Empire, which butterflies away the Nazis.

As to the economic potential of Tsarist Russia it is important to remember that Russia had a one-two punch with the Civil War and the horrors of Stalinism. The Civil War destroyed a huge part of Russia and was basically a miniature collapse, while Stalin slaughtered huge numbers of people and the breakneck pace of industrialization led to huge inefficiencies. Just by avoiding those two things Russia would be much better off.
 

Deleted member 1487

By 1920 it was expected to have 3 times the industry capacity of Germany, a railroad system crisscrossing European Russia, a two track Trans-Siberian Railroad, and a military capable of singlehandedly defeating Germany's military. Not to mention population growth.
What? No, just not. The Russian Empire had a fraction of German economic strength in 1914, there is no way they'd grow to 300% of German industrial capacity in 6 years.
 
Huh? That map shows a major drop off as a result of the Russian Civil War, Stalin improving things in the 1920s-30s and WW2 destroying their economy.

Stalin's obsession with forced industrialization was the reason the Soviets won WW2. Without it they simply wouldn't have the industrial base to fight a war. Lend lease can only go so far.
 
What? No, just not. The Russian Empire had a fraction of German economic strength in 1914, there is no way they'd grow to 300% of German industrial capacity in 6 years.

It also meant that the Austro-German economies would just stagnates while the Russian would go China-level growth.
 

Deleted member 1487

It also meant that the Austro-German economies would just stagnates while the Russian would go China-level growth.
China only grew at 12% at its peak, which isn't enough to achieve those numbers in 6 years; they'd need 50% growth every year, which no nation in history has achieved.
 
Give one good reason why the Tsars would not initiate industrialisation. It's also worth remembring that the Imperial Stavka probably wouldn't be stupid enough to completely ignore the massive troop buildup on the border like Stalin did.
 
Give one good reason why the Tsars would not initiate industrialisation. It's also worth remembring that the Imperial Stavka probably wouldn't be stupid enough to completely ignore the massive troop buildup on the border like Stalin did.

Because industrialization leads to the creation of a proletariat which can be targeted by the radical left for radicalization.
 
Because industrialization leads to the creation of a proletariat which can be targeted by the radical left for radicalization.

And yet the Tsar couldn't be completely against industrialization. Or else it Russia wouldn't have been industrializing at a rate that alarmed German policy makers.

Also a huge unanswered question here is what are the borders of this Tsarist Russia? I haven't seen that brought and sorry if it has.
 
I see that the Imperial German Army's wildly exagerrated view of Tzarist Russia's power is still alive and well among the good members of AH.com.

But if somehow one were to construct a scenario where Nazi Germany launches Barbarossa against a surviving Tzarist Russia I have no doubt that the Nazis would win. Without the industrialisation efforts in the USSR (which no Tzarist government would copy), the Russia that faces off against Germany ITTL will have much less factories to churn out tanks and artillery. Sure, ITTL Russia would be more industrialized in 1941. than it was in 1914., but it'd be a far cry from the USSR in 1941.
 
You won't Joe Stalin to Kick around anymore

So by merely still existing a Tsarist Russia defeats the Nazis by not letting them come into existence.
 
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