Could a Tsarist Russia defeat the Nazis?

If there would be surviving tsarist Russia (constitutional or authotarian) Nazis probably butterfly away, leastly that kind of as in OTL. And for me surviving tsarist Russia even would need pre-1900 POD and this cause some butterflies. There would be even pretty different WW1.
 
If there would be surviving tsarist Russia (constitutional or authotarian) Nazis probably butterfly away, leastly that kind of as in OTL. And for me surviving tsarist Russia even would need pre-1900 POD and this cause some butterflies. There would be even pretty different WW1.

But if the very unlikely chance the Nazis still came to power, could they defeat White Russia?
 
So assuming the Nazis do come to power for whatever reason I would assume that they would, though it would depend on how they survive (by winning WWI or by the Whites winning the civil war). Either way, chances are they would, given the ridiculous extent to which Stalin shot himself in the foot. Surviving Tsarism means probably no purges, which is already a big boon, as well as no gulags and no Ukrainian famine. Basically, if Stalin managed to beat the Nazis, pretty much anyone else would be able to.
 
Like others have said, it would be impossible for them to exist at the same time.

But in a hypothetical world where they do, all other things the same, I'm leaning to no.
 

tenthring

Banned
Hitler may not invade Russia if its not Bolshevik. The idea that it was a Jew led conspiracy whose ideals were the complete antithesis of his own was a big part behind why the sheer numbers involved could be ignored.

Second, I don't think that the west would have been as lenient with Hitler without the threat of communism. Hitler came to power and got free passes largely because people though the alternative was communism.

In addition I can't see Tsarist Russia signing things like the non-aggression pact. Or tolerating Hitler more generally. Nazism was a revolutionary movement that was profoundly anti-traditional.

It's true that the communists managed to industrialize Russia pretty fast, but they also fucked things up pretty good. It's entirely possible a White Russia could still produce T-34s by 1941.
 
So assuming the Nazis do come to power for whatever reason I would assume that they would, though it would depend on how they survive (by winning WWI or by the Whites winning the civil war). Either way, chances are they would, given the ridiculous extent to which Stalin shot himself in the foot. Surviving Tsarism means probably no purges, which is already a big boon, as well as no gulags and no Ukrainian famine. Basically, if Stalin managed to beat the Nazis, pretty much anyone else would be able to.

Surviving Tsarism also means slow, halting modernization, economic malaise, a military partly dominated by aristocrats, and more national unrest among non Russians. And the same forces that brought Russia down in 1917 would be at work.

The extent to which Stalin damaged the military is debatable but almost always overestimated. It was more relevant to the winter war than the Soviet German war, when much of it had been reversed.

So basically it would be the opposite of what you're claiming here.
 
Hitler may not invade Russia if its not Bolshevik. The idea that it was a Jew led conspiracy whose ideals were the complete antithesis of his own was a big part behind why the sheer numbers involved could be ignored.

Which is why Hitler only invaded communist countries? The idea of lebensraum will presumably still be there.
 
if there had been no Russian revolution would the Nazis have come to power?

Pretty surely not.

Nazis used a fear of communism to gain power, they presented themselves as the only ones in the German political spectrum to "do something about the communist menace". A Tsarist Russia is something people are used to, unless they actually morph into something expansionist and crazy they are something that Germans may dislike but are well used to.

Also their survival necessitates (I) no WWI, or (II) an early end to WWI, or (III) a WWI being ran with far more restraint, at least at the Eastern front; or the Whites having a more coherent leadership and gaining the upper hand in the civil war (IV). This is the only possible outcome resulting in coexistence of Tsarist Empire and Nazis, if the Tsarist empire changes through the war's impact enough to scare average German's pants off. At which point, the changes may just as well be parallel to the changes in Russian social fabric wrought by communists - or something completely different, unpredictable without further clarification.
 

MrP

Banned
Hitler may not invade Russia if its not Bolshevik. The idea that it was a Jew led conspiracy whose ideals were the complete antithesis of his own was a big part behind why the sheer numbers involved could be ignored.
Czechoslovakia, Poland, Denmark, Norway, the Low Countries, France, etc., etc., were not Bolshevik and Nazi Germany invaded them nonetheless. In fact there's a decent case to be made that a non-Bolshevik Russia would probably look like 1930s Poland in political terms (possibly in economic terms as well).
 
Basically what it saids on the tin.

There would be no Nazis with a tsarist Russia. And if there was another anticommunist, anti-Semitic ruling party in Germany, then it would surely have allied with the Tsar, since both had anakin approach to Jews: undesirable and foreign individuals in a "sane" people.
 
No. A tsarist Russia would never have been driven to implement the policies of forced collectivization and forced industrialization that were crucial to the Soviet victory. Forced collectivization provided the capital for primitive socialist accumulation which in turn financed the Soviet industrial revolution and provided them with an industrial base to fight the Nazis.
 
A Tsarist Russia would be more friendly with France, so Hitler may need to fight the two of them at the same time. Also, I don't quite buy the notion that Communism was necessary for Russia to advance beyond the middle ages when it seemed to be performing quite well pre-WWI. How did the Tsarist Russia in the post-WWI period come to be, anyway? A Tsarist restoration by the Whites? No revolution at all?
 
A Tsarist Russia would be more friendly with France, so Hitler may need to fight the two of them at the same time. Also, I don't quite buy the notion that Communism was necessary for Russia to advance beyond the middle ages when it seemed to be performing quite well pre-WWI. How did the Tsarist Russia in the post-WWI period come to be, anyway? A Tsarist restoration by the Whites? No revolution at all?

By quite well you mean being smashed while fighting on its own soil in the Crimean war, getting smashed by an upstart Asian imperial power and getting smashed by a Germany holding off half the world on a completely separate front thousands of miles away?
 
By quite well you mean being smashed while fighting on its own soil in the Crimean war, getting smashed by an upstart Asian imperial power and getting smashed by a Germany holding off half the world on a completely separate front thousands of miles away?

I should have clarified: I meant economic growth. The Russo-Japanese War and WWI* did indeed indicate a failure to translate this into military strength, but I don't see why the interwar period should be too short to rectify this. The Crimean War, happening 60 years before WWI, is completely irrelevant.

*It should be noted that part of Germany's motivation for pushing for war when it did was because, based on projections of Russian growth, it was expected that 1914 was just about the last point at which Russia could be dealt with relatively easily. By 1920 or so a Russo-French alliance was expected to be more or less unstoppable.
 
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