Could a French-inspired Austrian Revolution occur in the 1790s?

Bavaria had a major liberal movement in the late 1700s in OTL. If Austria had annexed Bavaria in previous decades, could this give it a stronger liberal Germanic core?
 
Bavaria had a major liberal movement in the late 1700s in OTL. If Austria had annexed Bavaria in previous decades, could this give it a stronger liberal Germanic core?

Interesting. As others have pointed out my Joseph II PoD doesn't exactly work. Maybe A Hapsburg takeover of Bavaria would be a better starting point. I'd suppose the War of Bavarian Sucession would likely be the best place to start? Or maybe earlier.
 
Interesting. As others have pointed out my Joseph II PoD doesn't exactly work. Maybe A Hapsburg takeover of Bavaria would be a better starting point. I'd suppose the War of Bavarian Sucession would likely be the best place to start? Or maybe earlier.

Except you'd only get a personal union between Bavaria and Austria, not a combination of the two entities. Can you get it so revolutions break out in both regions simultaneously under factions who would unite into one country? It's certainly possible, but you run the very real risk of Austria spinning off rather than a single South Germany. Though, Absolutist reforms trying to dissolve Bavaria under a common crown and exploit the middle class in the region for Vienna's benefit could be a good impetus for Republican agitation
 
What's preventing the Emperor from just marching on Vienna with a Hungarian Army besides a little bit of humiliation?
 
Except you'd only get a personal union between Bavaria and Austria, not a combination of the two entities. Can you get it so revolutions break out in both regions simultaneously under factions who would unite into one country? It's certainly possible, but you run the very real risk of Austria spinning off rather than a single South Germany. Though, Absolutist reforms trying to dissolve Bavaria under a common crown and exploit the middle class in the region for Vienna's benefit could be a good impetus for Republican agitation
Wikipedia tells me that in 1785, Joseph II offered to swap Bavaria with Charles Theodore von Wittelsbach for the Austrian Netherlands. Charles Theodore didn’t take the deal IOTL, but if he had, that provides a way to get Bavaria into Austria without personal union.
 
What's preventing the Emperor from just marching on Vienna with a Hungarian Army besides a little bit of humiliation?
Pro-Revolutionary forces inside Hungary and local magnates trying to create independent realms as suggested earlier, plus pressure from the Russians and Ottomans?
 
Except you'd only get a personal union between Bavaria and Austria, not a combination of the two entities. Can you get it so revolutions break out in both regions simultaneously under factions who would unite into one country? It's certainly possible, but you run the very real risk of Austria spinning off rather than a single South Germany. Though, Absolutist reforms trying to dissolve Bavaria under a common crown and exploit the middle class in the region for Vienna's benefit could be a good impetus for Republican agitation

I think the difference between personal union and single state would matter about as much to German nationalist revolutionaries as it did to Oliver Cromwell.
 
I think the difference between personal union and single state would matter about as much to German nationalist revolutionaries as it did to Oliver Cromwell.

The main issue I'm having is just how exactly an Austrian Revolution would get off the ground. With Joseph II enacting liberal reforms throughout his reign, I'm not sure where the desire for Republican revolution would come from. Could it somehow spread from Bavaria? Is there any way to change Joseph II's reign into a more reactionary absolutist one? Maybe Francis I surviving into the 1790s would help?
 
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The main issue I'm having is just how exactly an Austrian Revolution would get off the ground. With Joseph II enacting liberal reforms throughout his reign, I'm not sure where the desire for Republican revolution would come from. Could it somehow spread from Bavaria? Is there any way to change Joseph II's reign into a more reactionary absolutist one? Maybe a Francis I surviving into the 1790s could help.

IMO your best bet is not Joseph II of OTL. Lets either change Joseph II to a much more patient end tactful person or maybe get Leopold II (for this kill Joseph II earlier, maybe before he takes the throne)early. The important point is to have a very successful enlightened absolutist reformer of Austria while avoiding to anger too much of the empires traditional leadership - so at the death of this ruler we have a successfull, content and a pretty liberal Austria. Than got a Francis I like person who tries to roll back the popular reforms. And than you can get a liberal revolution in Austria.
 
Pro-Revolutionary forces inside Hungary and local magnates trying to create independent realms as suggested earlier, plus pressure from the Russians and Ottomans?

Why would the Russians want to weaken Austria? Inversely, why would the Ottomans want to disrupt the status quo?
 
Why would the Russians want to weaken Austria? Inversely, why would the Ottomans want to disrupt the status quo?

... because Austria has just gone batshit insane and the "status quo" has already been disrupted. Or did you forget that the Revolution just happened in Vienna?

Post-war and a Hapsburg restoration, the Great Powers may very well negotiate Russia down to Austria's claims in Poland post-1st partition and the breakaway states to accept the restored regime (albeit with greater local autonomy for the nobility and guarantees of their ancient privileges and borders)
 
... because Austria has just gone batshit insane and the "status quo" has already been disrupted. Or did you forget that the Revolution just happened in Vienna?

Post-war and a Hapsburg restoration, the Great Powers may very well negotiate Russia down to Austria's claims in Poland post-1st partition and the breakaway states to accept the restored regime (albeit with greater local autonomy for the nobility and guarantees of their ancient privileges and borders)

Austria and Russia are allies. Moscow would act quickly - in concert with other European powers - to restore the scion of the Habsburgs to Vienna as soon as possible, maybe picking up a little Poland (but probably not Galicia). You have some kind of strange idea that Russia would move quickly and decisively to, if possible, dismember their own ally. That wouldn't be in their interests, and also wouldn't be in the MO of the time period
 
Not really. There were a few Jacobins in Austria and Hungary, but they were all executed. It would require an actual French invasion for a republic in Austria to be set up, and the only time France hit Austrian territory was in 1799, well after the revolutionary spirit had been muted by the Directory and the Jacobins had been executed.

Even Joseph II, despite being an incredibly awful ruler, wouldn't fuck things up enough for a republic to emerge. At its worst, I could see a rebellion by Hungarian nobility.
 
Austria and Russia are allies. Moscow would act quickly - in concert with other European powers - to restore the scion of the Habsburgs to Vienna as soon as possible, maybe picking up a little Poland (but probably not Galicia). You have some kind of strange idea that Russia would move quickly and decisively to, if possible, dismember their own ally. That wouldn't be in their interests, and also wouldn't be in the MO of the time period


Yes, they are. Hence why I suggested they'd get negotated down to merely taking Austria's claims on Poland from the later partitions and would be backing the "legitiment" polities independent of Revolutionary Vienna in the other Hapsburg Crowns. Like the Vendee and Emigree forces in the French Revolution, I thought it'd go without saying that these forces would pledge loyalty to the dynasty, but you can't deny that they'd insist that as a part of their counter-revolutionary ideals that defense of their liberties and would only gain more during the period of the Revolution, as they aren't getting instructions from Vienna nor does the dynasty have the post-Napoleonic legitimacy to push through centralizing reforms or even the need to given no Napoleonic defeat forcing the dynasty to sign away the title of Holy Roman Emperor. Such would be too rawly tied to the anarchy of the Revolution and counter to the "status quo antebellium" sentiments likely held by both the local leadership and Great Powers to be seriously undertaken. However, given that IOTL even with Austria merely allying under duress with the Frenchies the Russians still took their bite out of Poland during the Congress of Vienna, I fail to see why they woulden't seek SOME compensation after they went full-blown Revolutionary. And there are other powers who will insist on having a seat at the table like G.B, the Ottomans, and Prussia; the later two of whom certainly have no desire to see a strong Austria deeply indepted to/controlled by Russia without some kind of counterbalancing changes. And if Russia wants a seat at the table in the fate of France, she'll need to be prepared to play ball to a certain extent

I agree: Galicia is going way too far, but particularly if this Revolutionary Austria sees even a temporary revival of the Polish state in the chaos or stokes up Republican sentiment and a national awakening (Using something akin to the Polish Legions) around the core territories of Warsaw, I imagine Prussia and maybe even Sweden are going to be insisting that a stronger power with a demonstrated ability to keep the Poles down be put in charge of these sensative areas. Does Moscow really prefer them to be under Prussian rule?
 
Since Austria was a hot bed for reactionary rather than radical unrest, could there perhaps be a conservative revolution against Vienna if Leopold II fails to undo Joseph's mess? I'd love to read a TL about a europe divided between "Revolutionary Austria" lead by a regency council (until Archeduke Charles' military prowess allow him to strong arm his way onto the throne a-la Napoleon) bent on stamping out the enlightenment and a Revolutionary France which is hellbent on stamping out all traces of the ancien regime.
 
IMO your best bet is not Joseph II of OTL. Lets either change Joseph II to a much more patient end tactful person or maybe get Leopold II (for this kill Joseph II earlier, maybe before he takes the throne)early. The important point is to have a very successful enlightened absolutist reformer of Austria while avoiding to anger too much of the empires traditional leadership - so at the death of this ruler we have a successfull, content and a pretty liberal Austria. Than got a Francis I like person who tries to roll back the popular reforms. And than you can get a liberal revolution in Austria.

This sounds like the most interesting path. Say if Leopold succeeds Joseph early, maybe in 1770 or so, I'd wonder if the Austro-Russian alliance would still be formed and if the war with the Turks that caused such issues for Joseph then wouldn't have happened. That along with Leopold's better ability to reform would certainly make for quite a modernized and happy Austria by the time Francis comes around. I suppose even if the war did occur it would go much better for Austria as the Brabant Revolution likely wouldn't have occurred.
 
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