Continued Blitz in no Barbarossa TL

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Deleted member 1487

How would the Blitz and air war over Britain at night evolve without a Barbarossa campaign in 1941 (let's say the invasion of Russia never happens ITTL) while a Mediterranean option is playing out, leaving about 1/3rd of the Luftwaffe in the Mediterranean after the Balkan campaign wraps up in May 1941. IOTL the Blitz ended in May 1941 as British night defenses were improving...but also so were Luftwaffe bombing abilities. Historically a fraction of German air power was left in place in France to continue harassing Britain from 1941-44, but never with nearly as much impact as the Blitz had.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blitz#Final_attacks
 
Kills some more Brits, causes some more damage to the Luftwaffe. But nothing that actually impacts the war. Depending on how things go in the Med, it ends either when the war does or the Americans enter and flood Britain with fresh fighters.
 

Deleted member 1487

Kills some more Brits, causes some more damage to the Luftwaffe. But nothing that actually impacts the war. Depending on how things go in the Med, it ends either when the war does or the Americans enter and flood Britain with fresh fighters.
Any idea how long it would take the Brits to get their night defenses in order enough to shut down serious raids? IIRC in 1942 the Luftwaffe had to shift to fighter-bomber raids of less well defended cities because London and the major ones were too hot.
 
Any idea how long it would take the Brits to get their night defenses in order enough to shut down serious raids? IIRC in 1942 the Luftwaffe had to shift to fighter-bomber raids of less well defended cities because London and the major ones were too hot.

They were doing so already, so probably sometime towards the end of summer. Hard to say completely, given how the Germans suspended serious raids after May.
 
How would the Blitz and air war over Britain at night evolve without a Barbarossa campaign in 1941 (let's say the invasion of Russia never happens ITTL) while a Mediterranean option is playing out...

not sure if this was aspect of continued Blitz you are interested in

my thought would be earlier guided munitions, leave aside challenges of radio control and rocket power. they were attempting wire control during WWI (for the FL-boats) and guided SC-250 bombs during Spanish Civil War.

not making vote that they would be very successful but certainly would reduce their losses.
 

Deleted member 1487

not sure if this was aspect of continued Blitz you are interested in

my thought would be earlier guided munitions, leave aside challenges of radio control and rocket power. they were attempting wire control during WWI (for the FL-boats) and guided SC-250 bombs during Spanish Civil War.

not making vote that they would be very successful but certainly would reduce their losses.
What aspect do you see it used for? It wouldn't be cost effective given the area bombing that was going on during the Blitz, but if they got it working in 1941 for naval attacks that would be very helpful for a standoff weapon for the Fw200 facing escort carriers.
 
What aspect do you see it used for? It wouldn't be cost effective given the area bombing that was going on during the Blitz, but if they got it working in 1941 for naval attacks that would be very helpful for a standoff weapon for the Fw200 facing escort carriers.

yes, for the FW-200 out in the Atlantic, just wire guided SC-250 bombs would have been big improvement.

historically they attempted high altitude bombing with just handful of JU-86 (only carried single SC-250 bomb, unguided) and quickly dropped effort when modified Spitfire appeared.

nothing wrong with premise of either scenario and would be enhanced with guided munitions.
 
historically they attempted high altitude bombing with just handful of JU-86 ... quickly dropped effort when modified Spitfire appeared.

my understanding the RAF developed the Welkin to counter feared high altitude bombing campaign, wonder the effects if LW pursued stratosphere bombing to avoid the flak?

that Baedeker Blitz strategy of bombing secondary cities was not an AWFUL idea, they had the JU-86 try to provoke air raid sirens over multiple cities.

they had effective weapon in the butterfly bomb which would spread over large area from higher altitudes
 

Deleted member 1487

my understanding the RAF developed the Welkin to counter feared high altitude bombing campaign, wonder the effects if LW pursued stratosphere bombing to avoid the flak?

that Baedeker Blitz strategy of bombing secondary cities was not an AWFUL idea, they had the JU-86 try to provoke air raid sirens over multiple cities.

they had effective weapon in the butterfly bomb which would spread over large area from higher altitudes
High altitude bombing was the way to go if AAA became a problem, but it made accuracy much worse and made it easier for radar to see you, especially early on. So unless British AAA got a lot better the big issue will be night fighters. Those will be a problem from 1942 on, as the Mosquito was getting into mass production as was the first cavity magnetron based AI radar.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airborne_interception_radar#Wartime_systems

That would be a problem. I wonder if the Germans would start using Düppel? That was their version of chaff. It apparently worked in 1943-44 in screwing up US and British ground radar, but the much more powerful and find detailed night fighter radar wasn't impacted by it. Still if GCI doesn't work perhaps night fighters would have some serious issues finding targets? Perhaps the Luftwaffe develops their won Group 100 for ECM?
 
Would continued air attacks would see British development of SAM and AAM maintain high priority?
 
wonder the effects if LW pursued stratosphere bombing to avoid the flak?

they had effective weapon in the butterfly bomb which would spread over large area from higher altitudes

High altitude bombing was the way to go if AAA became a problem, but it made accuracy much worse and made it easier for radar to see you, especially early on.

remember they WANTED the JU-86 to be tracked, hopefully provoking air raid sirens in multiple towns.

noted the butterfly bombs as good payload for high altitude missions, although (my understanding) they did not grasp how effective (disruptive) they were?

my scenario would have some number of the HE-119 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinkel_He_119 built and add 3rd engine to JU-86 to extend its useful life. (and possibly the ME-155 high altitude fighter version of 109?)
 
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