CONTEXTUALIZE!

Hermanubis

Alright,here is what we are going to do: I have a map here, without labels or context; you are going to tell me what you think is going on here. So, how about it?

amap.PNG
 

Nekromans

Okay, lessee...

Yellow in British Isles - Uber-Cornwall.
Green everywhere - Saarlander-Irish Empire.
Pink in North Germany - Grand Duchy of Pomerania.
Blue in Eastern Europe - Courland.
Mauve above Italy - Lichenstein in Exile.
Orange - Euskadi.
Colour in Scandinavia - I'd say some sort of union, maybe based in... Kalmar? Nah, ASB.
 

Jacobite

I'm guessing this is the present?

England/Netherlands Union. William the Orange?
Strange Irish division, cant tell.
Slightly bigger Scotland.
Kalmar Union doesn't break apart, and expands into Russia/Baltic states.
Germany divided between Austria + Prussia?
Spain has Portugal, a war?
Aragon remains independent from Spain?
Large Genoa.
Papacy runs former Venetian territory? Perhaps the League of Cambrai wars turn out differently.
Personal union of Poland/Lithuania expands?
Fractured Ottoman empire? Either that or the Byzantines screwed up.
Defeated Russia in a few wars as i see, no St. Petersburg in their territory.

Am i totally off? :D
 
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Philip

Donor
United Kingdom of England and the Netherlands: English Parliament elects John William Friso, Prince of Orange, to succeed William III.
Scotland: Scots reject the above election.
Kingdom of Sweden: Charles XII fully conquers Denmark and repels Peter the Great.
Habsburgs and Brandenburg-Prussia: Fight a war dividing Germany, each trying to connect their OTL possessions.
Hungary: Increasing Germanification of the Habsburg lands drives Hungarian nationalism. They eventually break free.
Russia: Peter the Great's defeat by Sweden stunts Russian expansion. Thus, the Khanate remains independent.
Turkey: The Ottoman Empire collapses from the inside. Various nationalities and local powers establish their own states in the Middle East, North Africa, the Balkans, and the Danube.
Spain: Spain conquers Portugal, but Catalonia nationalists latter establish their own republic.
Switzerland: OTL Switzerland is transported to this timeline by ASB.

amap.PNG
 
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Philip

Donor
Hermanubis said:
*Ah-hum! *
*Points to the country East of Savoy, North of Milan and West of Austrian Tyrol*
Click to expand...

Everyone agrees that Switzerland has been around for quite some time. However, its borders in your map seem to match the borders of modern Switzerland much more than the 1500 borders. There is no problem having Switzerland survive. But ending up with exactly the same borders will surrounded by land-grabbers like Austria and France? Even Savoy wanted to gobble up parts. It seems unlikely that with all the other changes in borders that the Swiss borders wouldn't change too.
 

ninebucks

Banned
Philip said:
Everyone agrees that Switzerland has been around for quite some time. However, its borders in your map seem to match the borders of modern Switzerland much more than the 1500 borders. There is no problem having Switzerland survive. But ending up with exactly the same borders will surrounded by land-grabbers like Austria and France? Even Savoy wanted to gobble up parts. It seems unlikely that with all the other changes in borders that the Swiss borders wouldn't change too.
Click to expand...

Switzerland's borders are quite strongly defined by the topography of the area. So its not as unlikely as you might think for the same borders to eventually emerge.
 

Tom Veil

ninebucks said:
Switzerland's borders are quite strongly defined by the topography of the area. So its not as unlikely as you might think for the same borders to eventually emerge.
Click to expand...
True, but little things, like controlling Geneve, or the borders of Graubunden, need not have come out the same way twice, and it really does look like the borders of Switzerland are exactly the same as in OTL.
 

Philip

Donor
ninebucks said:
Switzerland's borders are quite strongly defined by the topography of the area.
Click to expand...

More accurately, the borders of the cantons of Switzerland are largely defined by the topography of the area. Which cantons are in the confederation is not so strongly defined.

The cantons of St Gallin, Gaubunden, Aargua, Thurgua, Ticino, Vaud, Valais, Neuchatel, Geneva, and Jura were all added to the confederation after 1800. (The POD for the map appears to be pre 1800.) If we examine how each of these cantons came to be part of Switzerland, it becomes highly unlikely that all of them, and only they, would join.

Consider St Gallin. Originally, these were the lands controlled by an abby. Only after the lands were secularized as part of the French Revolutionary Wars was it possible for the canton to be added. Gaubunden was long an ally of the Swiss, and would probably have joined the Confederation. That is, assuming the Habsburgs did not invade again. Likewise Aargua, Thurgua, Ticino (which was almost annexed by the Cisalpine Republic), and Vaud changed hands as part the French Revolutionary Wars. If the French Revolution had gone differently, can we assume that all these cantons would end up in the Confederation today?

Neuchatel was Prussian until 1848. It could have been conceivably pulled out of the confederation at any time before that.

Geneva was an free republic until it was added to Switzerland by the Congress of Vienna. The Congress also increased the size of Geneva by adding lands from Savoy and France.

It is also possible it have Switzerland grow. The Austrian state of Vorarlberg tried to join after the break-up of Austria Hungary. Perhaps Mulhouse would not have been annexed by France and would have become a full member of the Confederation. Likewise, Bormio and Veltlin could have become full members rather becoming part of Lombardy.
 
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