Consequences of a heart attack TL
- Thread starter abc123
- Start date
abc123
Banned
I'm glad you like it.
And to answer to all my loyal fans, no, this TL is not dead ( but I can't say when the next update will be )...
Three main reasons: you generally want to launch satellites in an easterly direction to take advantage of the earth's rotation to give it a bit of an extra boost, the closer to the equator the better, and it's handy to launch them out over open water in case anything goes wrong or they drop debris. So Trinidad is better as it's roughly 500 miles further south closer to the equator, plus if you launch from Jamaica then they're likely to pass over Haiti, the Dominican Republic, Puerto Rico and the northern Windward Islands which is going to complicate things as opposed to the open North Atlantic.
sharlin
Banned
A quick question, what year is the TL at now? Some time in the 50's isn't it?
Thoughts on the Anglo-French ground forces.
After WW2 the UK was seriously pursuing the idea of a ‘Universal Tank’ using a limited number of hull types for multiple roles. This lead to the development of the Centurion and the larger and more unsuccessful Conqueror which would be deployed to fight together, the Centurion being the general combat tank and the Conqueror the long ranged direct fire support against Soviet machines like the T-10 and IS series.
Based on the Centurion Hull there was a whole slew of vehicle designs planned;
FV3801 – Gun Tractor.
FV3802 – 25lb Self Propelled Gun
FV3803 – Command Post
FV3804 – Ammunition Vehicle
FV3805 – 5.5 inch SPG
FV3806 – 7.2 inch SPG
FV3807 – 120mm SP AT Gun
FV-3808 – 155mm (6 inch) SPG
FV-3809 – 155mm SP ATG
(Please note this does not include the dozen or so developments of the Centurion tank itself into various engineering vehicles etc.)
The theory behind this was that by having a smaller number of hull types it would simplify the supply chain as all the machines would require the same engines, same tracks, radios and fittings being fundamentally the same machine with variations in armament and internal layout. This makes things a LOT easier on the supply chain and reduces costs and is I’d say a good idea.
In keeping with the cooled relationship between the UK and the US and an emphasis on home made products this programme could be continued as it would ensure British jobs. The Centurion is already seemingly an export success so supporting and endorsing this could also lead to more exports and more jobs.
Working with the French has its own issues as they use different measurements to us as well as different electrical systems/ratings so this is problematic but there’s still scope for working together. Although it would be likely that both nations would produce their own independent vehicle designs, as multi-national attempts at this have almost uniformly been unsuccessful.
The MTB-70 for example is a poster child of this, they could produce a cannon for their tanks for example that could be fitted on both French and British machines on a universal housing/mount. The weapon for this is the 105mm L/52 L7 gun which became the NATO standard gun until the adoption of the 120mm gun in the 80’s. The French 105 equivalent on the AMX-30 was unique to them and could not even fire NATO standard ammo, the adoption of the L7 would ease this supply problem.
As a sign of closer co-operation between the UK and France the UK could produce the Mk F3 155mm SPG as a light weapon instead of the Abbot 105mm weapon, the French system is based on the AMX-13 light tank. The UK could buy the plans and parts to produce the vehicle (as well as the support AMX-VCI) but arm it with a UK made 155mm howitzer and in return the French could purchase the plans for the L7 105mm gun and some British machines.
The F3 for example had weaknesses in that it was an open topped SPG and would need multiple machines to carry the crew and ammo for the gun so both the UK and France could start building the FV-3808 155mm SPG and its 3804 ammo vehicle. This means that when the US comes along and does a fan dance with the M109 SPG to entice France and the UK with it, both could go “Well..thanks..but we’ve got our own thing that we’d not have to import…and these give our folks jobs as we’re making them :3”
Such weapon systems also are a counter to almost all of NATO being made to buy US as it’s a rival on the export market and both the UK and France already have captive markets so to speak in regards to dominions and overseas territories etc.
This could also help stop some of the huge wastes of money by the UK’s arms industry post war where it designed things, tested and prototyped them only for the Govt to go ‘Nah we’re buying American now!’ which has a far lower chance of happening in this TL.
If I was in charge of the British army i'd order into service the following.
FV3801 – Gun Tractor.
FV3803 – Command Post
FV3804 – Ammunition Vehicle
FV3808 – 155mm (6 inch) SPG
Self propelled ATGs are obsolete in the world of missiles so there's no need for them although there was a missile carrier version of the Centurion planned called the FV4010 which was to be armed with the Malkara ATGM and that could be developed too with the French..
A mock up of the FV3808
Thoughts on the Anglo-French ground forces.
After WW2 the UK was seriously pursuing the idea of a ‘Universal Tank’ using a limited number of hull types for multiple roles. This lead to the development of the Centurion and the larger and more unsuccessful Conqueror which would be deployed to fight together, the Centurion being the general combat tank and the Conqueror the long ranged direct fire support against Soviet machines like the T-10 and IS series.
Based on the Centurion Hull there was a whole slew of vehicle designs planned;
FV3801 – Gun Tractor.
FV3802 – 25lb Self Propelled Gun
FV3803 – Command Post
FV3804 – Ammunition Vehicle
FV3805 – 5.5 inch SPG
FV3806 – 7.2 inch SPG
FV3807 – 120mm SP AT Gun
FV-3808 – 155mm (6 inch) SPG
FV-3809 – 155mm SP ATG
(Please note this does not include the dozen or so developments of the Centurion tank itself into various engineering vehicles etc.)
The theory behind this was that by having a smaller number of hull types it would simplify the supply chain as all the machines would require the same engines, same tracks, radios and fittings being fundamentally the same machine with variations in armament and internal layout. This makes things a LOT easier on the supply chain and reduces costs and is I’d say a good idea.
In keeping with the cooled relationship between the UK and the US and an emphasis on home made products this programme could be continued as it would ensure British jobs. The Centurion is already seemingly an export success so supporting and endorsing this could also lead to more exports and more jobs.
Working with the French has its own issues as they use different measurements to us as well as different electrical systems/ratings so this is problematic but there’s still scope for working together. Although it would be likely that both nations would produce their own independent vehicle designs, as multi-national attempts at this have almost uniformly been unsuccessful.
The MTB-70 for example is a poster child of this, they could produce a cannon for their tanks for example that could be fitted on both French and British machines on a universal housing/mount. The weapon for this is the 105mm L/52 L7 gun which became the NATO standard gun until the adoption of the 120mm gun in the 80’s. The French 105 equivalent on the AMX-30 was unique to them and could not even fire NATO standard ammo, the adoption of the L7 would ease this supply problem.
As a sign of closer co-operation between the UK and France the UK could produce the Mk F3 155mm SPG as a light weapon instead of the Abbot 105mm weapon, the French system is based on the AMX-13 light tank. The UK could buy the plans and parts to produce the vehicle (as well as the support AMX-VCI) but arm it with a UK made 155mm howitzer and in return the French could purchase the plans for the L7 105mm gun and some British machines.
The F3 for example had weaknesses in that it was an open topped SPG and would need multiple machines to carry the crew and ammo for the gun so both the UK and France could start building the FV-3808 155mm SPG and its 3804 ammo vehicle. This means that when the US comes along and does a fan dance with the M109 SPG to entice France and the UK with it, both could go “Well..thanks..but we’ve got our own thing that we’d not have to import…and these give our folks jobs as we’re making them :3”
Such weapon systems also are a counter to almost all of NATO being made to buy US as it’s a rival on the export market and both the UK and France already have captive markets so to speak in regards to dominions and overseas territories etc.
This could also help stop some of the huge wastes of money by the UK’s arms industry post war where it designed things, tested and prototyped them only for the Govt to go ‘Nah we’re buying American now!’ which has a far lower chance of happening in this TL.
If I was in charge of the British army i'd order into service the following.
FV3801 – Gun Tractor.
FV3803 – Command Post
FV3804 – Ammunition Vehicle
FV3808 – 155mm (6 inch) SPG
Self propelled ATGs are obsolete in the world of missiles so there's no need for them although there was a missile carrier version of the Centurion planned called the FV4010 which was to be armed with the Malkara ATGM and that could be developed too with the French..
A mock up of the FV3808
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Hello
Another question I forgot to ask- how are labour relations in 1961? Have the changes to the companies and manufacturing butterflies many of the labour/union problems that where going to plague the UK later?
Another question I forgot to ask- how are labour relations in 1961? Have the changes to the companies and manufacturing butterflies many of the labour/union problems that where going to plague the UK later?
abc123
Banned
Hi ogre, sorry, it seems that I have forgotten to answer your previous questions. Too much work. But I hop it will be better soon.
Anyway, about work relations, I presume that work relations are generally good in this 1961, as they vere mostly good in OTL 1961. While the economy is OK, labour relations are mostly OK too.
I don't see any major change from OTL situation.
But I will have to pay more attention on that matter. OFC, if you have any sugestions about that, please bring them here...
abc123
Banned
I have just caught up with this excellent timeline and have been impressed with the assertive Britain without it being ASB.
Some questions:
1) Why not use Jamaica for the Space Port if Trinidad was too 'lefty'?
Well, SImon has allready answered it...
2) With a downturn in relations with the US is TV importing the American output it it OTL or are we looking to import from Commonwealth & Empire?
Not so much, more from Europe.
3) In music are the Beatles popular in the US? Have we imported rock 'n' roll or has it died on the vine?
I really don't have a clue.
4) With a more conservative UK will gay rights and women's lib take off?
Well i wouldn't say that UK here is much more conservative than OTL...
5) What happened to the supersonic plane project mentioned briefly?
You mean OTL Concorde? Nothing, project cancelled. There was no enough money for space program and Concorde.
6) The post office experimented by digital phone exchanges in the 50's/60's with more empathises on tech (it seems) can Britain pulls off a digital info service like the one Feance has?
Maybe, it's a highly technical matter, if you are a expert, can you give me any suggesstions?
7) More nuclear power- does this mean the coal unions grip is weaker? This will have huge implications later!
Well, I presume that more nuclear power will help, but Britain is still pretty dependent on coal ( as strategic reserve against any shortage of oil ) while nuclear power winds up, and that will ask for at least another decade... Also, North Sea oil and gas will need time to be fully functional.
8) If Anti-Americanism is strong in the UK/Commonwealth does that prevent the invension of the teenager as imported US advertising trends/ideas fail?
I'm not sure. I would't say so, because France also was/is pretty anti-American, and it didn't happen there...
If you can somehow prevent the loss of the Great Transatlantic liners that would be fantastic!
That would go into a ASB territory my friend.
Great work, looking forward to more!
Here, I answered within a post.
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sharlin
Banned
Ahh fair enough well my information is still relevant if ya wanna use it or throw it aside, I don't mind either way