Congress Poland as Romanov secundogeniture

As title says, could it happen and how do you think it would work? I guess it would be possible if Alexander I have two legitimate surviving sons (say Alexander jr. and Paul), and wants both of them to be monarchs. Alexander, unlike his brother Nicholas, never bothered to crown himself as King of Poland (Nicholas I was crowned in Warsaw in 1829), so he could decide late in his reign to let his younger son to be crowned instead. Such Romanov king, who is not Russian Tsar at the same time may change few things-he would reside in Warsaw, would remain Orthodox, but could marry Catholic princess and have Catholic offspring. Most important change is Nicholas I butterflied away as tsar, (perhaps his alternate nephews would happen to be more liberal), so more chances to avoid November Uprising (although it still could happen, Wysocki and his frustrated buddies would not disappear, but may not gather enough support ITTL). Nicholas I was old school monarch, who treated his job seriously, so if he tought, that welfare of his subjects require breaking Constitution, he didn't hestitated to break it, in absolutely good will. That view was not very popular among Poles, rumours, that he wanted to send Polish Army to Belgium to use opportunity of absence of Polish troops to abolish autonomy of Congress Kingdom also were not helpful.
 
As title says, could it happen and how do you think it would work? I guess it would be possible if Alexander I have two legitimate surviving sons (say Alexander jr. and Paul), and wants both of them to be monarchs. Alexander, unlike his brother Nicholas, never bothered to crown himself as King of Poland (Nicholas I was crowned in Warsaw in 1829), so he could decide late in his reign to let his younger son to be crowned instead. Such Romanov king, who is not Russian Tsar at the same time may change few things-he would reside in Warsaw, would remain Orthodox, but could marry Catholic princess and have Catholic offspring.

Except for the son, Catholic offspring and coronation procedure you just described Constantine (and you know it ;)). Of course, Polish countess is not exactly a princess but she is at least native to the country.

Most important change is Nicholas I butterflied away as tsar, (perhaps his alternate nephews would happen to be more liberal), so more chances to avoid November Uprising (although it still could happen, Wysocki and his frustrated buddies would not disappear, but may not gather enough support ITTL).

This looks like a highly optimistic scenario. Liberal or not, there would be grumping about the borders which MUST be expanded to include <you probably have a better idea what would be the limit>, a need to be tough with the Russian Empire and many more quite productive wishes of the same type. :p

Nicholas I was old school monarch, who treated his job seriously, so if he tought, that welfare of his subjects require breaking Constitution, he didn't hestitated to break it, in absolutely good will. That view was not very popular among Poles, rumours, that he wanted to send Polish Army to Belgium to use opportunity of absence of Polish troops to abolish autonomy of Congress Kingdom also were not helpful.

I'm more than sure that, these issues being absent, there would be plenty of others.:p
 
Still, even OTL Wysocki and his conspirators couldn't find general, who'll want to lead them. General Potocki told them "you better calm down, kids". Six Polish generals were murdered by conspirators that November night, elites of Congress Poland strongly opposed uprising started by hotblooded youth.
Constantine was viceroy, but still, it was not the same thing as separate monarch, and his custom of humiliating Polish officers in front of their soldiers did not made him popular, despite his polonophilia. Things like birth of 'Royal Baby' in Warsaw baptized as Kazimierz or Władysław also would be useful for propaganda purposes.

Still, it is hard to predict what would happen with 1830 uprising avoided, year 1848 would be another critical point.
 
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I must say, it could be an interesting idea, but to translate it from an interesting idea to reality might be a problem. Giving Alexander live issue (and two sons) means a reasonably early POD - his first daughter was born in 1799 and his second child almost a decade later, and then he just decided that God didn't like his kids.

I could see a rather large problem with the fact that both of his kids were rumored to be born from his wife's infidelities, with Czartoryski (a Pole) and Okhitnikov. I can just imagine that there'd be the gossip in St. Petersburg if Alexander announces this plan about the child being the kid of Czartoryski or such. Since, AIUI, the paternity of Sasha's OTL kids has never been proved otherwise, I accept that the comments about Maria/Elizabeth Alexandrovna are just malicious court gossip.

However, I do think that a Russian secundogeniture in Poland might be more possible than anyone accepting a Romanov for the throne of Greece/Byzantium.
 
I must say, it could be an interesting idea, but to translate it from an interesting idea to reality might be a problem. Giving Alexander live issue (and two sons) means a reasonably early POD - his first daughter was born in 1799 and his second child almost a decade later, and then he just decided that God didn't like his kids.

I could see a rather large problem with the fact that both of his kids were rumored to be born from his wife's infidelities, with Czartoryski (a Pole) and Okhitnikov. I can just imagine that there'd be the gossip in St. Petersburg if Alexander announces this plan about the child being the kid of Czartoryski or such. Since, AIUI, the paternity of Sasha's OTL kids has never been proved otherwise, I accept that the comments about Maria/Elizabeth Alexandrovna are just malicious court gossip.

However, I do think that a Russian secundogeniture in Poland might be more possible than anyone accepting a Romanov for the throne of Greece/Byzantium.
I tought also about slightly different scenario: what if Alexander had daughter? Russia had semi-salic succession law back then, so Alexander's daughter would be behind his brothers in line to Russian throne, so what if Alexander wants his own child to inherit at least one of his thrones?
 
I tought also about slightly different scenario: what if Alexander had daughter? Russia had semi-salic succession law back then, so Alexander's daughter would be behind his brothers in line to Russian throne, so what if Alexander wants his own child to inherit at least one of his thrones?

It would be problematic IMHO. The Romanovs wouldn't be in favour of just being expected to keep smiling as they wave goodbye to a decent chunk of their empire. The girl might end up in the same position as Maria Auguste of Saxony who was supposed to wed Prince Poniatowski: between too important (daughter of an emperor can't marry a mere Poniatowski/Radziwiłł/Czartoryski) and not important enough (the Romanovs won't want her to wed a Hohenzollern/insert name here second-son; and the Orthodox church frowns on first cousin matches, so she probably won't marry a Nikolaievich/Mikhailovich*). Thus she'd end up unwed and the Polish crown would end up back on the tsar's forehead wouldn't it? How about Alexander has 2 sons, leaves Poland to the younger boy, then said younger boy marries but only has a daughter. Said daughter marries a Nikolaievich/Mikhailovich second cousin if the Romanovs don't want to lose Poland

*she'd be closer in age to her uncles Nikolai/Mikhail than any of their kids. But considering the Orthodox Church's stance on cousin marriage, I can't see them agreeing to an uncle-niece marriage.
 
It would be problematic IMHO. The Romanovs wouldn't be in favour of just being expected to keep smiling as they wave goodbye to a decent chunk of their empire. The girl might end up in the same position as Maria Auguste of Saxony who was supposed to wed Prince Poniatowski: between too important (daughter of an emperor can't marry a mere Poniatowski/Radziwiłł/Czartoryski) and not important enough (the Romanovs won't want her to wed a Hohenzollern/insert name here second-son; and the Orthodox church frowns on first cousin matches, so she probably won't marry a Nikolaievich/Mikhailovich*). Thus she'd end up unwed and the Polish crown would end up back on the tsar's forehead wouldn't it? How about Alexander has 2 sons, leaves Poland to the younger boy, then said younger boy marries but only has a daughter. Said daughter marries a Nikolaievich/Mikhailovich second cousin if the Romanovs don't want to lose Poland

*she'd be closer in age to her uncles Nikolai/Mikhail than any of their kids. But considering the Orthodox Church's stance on cousin marriage, I can't see them agreeing to an uncle-niece marriage.
So let's return to the two sons scenario. What would you say about younger "Polish" one marrying Habsburg girl? Or should he choose more "neutral" wife?
 
Since I've seen the problems of a Catholic-Orthodox marriage listed in several other threads, I won'lt reiterate them here, so I think a Habsburg/Hohenzollern match would be seen as unnecessarily provocational to the one NOT picked. However, a proxy princess might be more acceptable.
 
So non-Habsburg German Catholic, or some "egzotic" candidate (Portuguese/Spanish/Italian), these should not be viewed as possibly dangerous, unlike Austria, these monarchies have zero interests in Poland.
 
Wittelsbach or Saxon might be good options (although if he's Elisabeth Alexeïevna's son, a Wittelsbach daughter of Maximilian I would be a first cousin).
 
I tought also about slightly different scenario: what if Alexander had daughter? Russia had semi-salic succession law back then, so Alexander's daughter would be behind his brothers in line to Russian throne, so what if Alexander wants his own child to inherit at least one of his thrones?
Russian’s laws of succession were already changed by Alexander’s father so a daughter of Alexander would be heiress of nothing.
 
I simply think it was never going to happen, if only because of the goals that the Russian Emperors since Catherine the Great have had for Poland (and was the reason Alexander I went through the whole Polish-Saxon Crisis in the first place). They wanted to have Poland as part of the Russian Empire, not as a separate kingdom, even if it was under a junior Romanov line. It was pretty much why Russia managed to keep the Kingdom within the Empire.
 
Alexander had personal fixation about Poland and about being saviour of Poles. He wanted Poland for himself, not for Russia. He could just annex parts of Duchy of Warsaw directly into Russia, other partitioners and Russian elites would be far more about this than about his OTL decission to create Kingdom of Poland.
 
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