Confederates overrun Washington

Cook

Banned
What establishes the CSA as a nation state if the Union is still fighting?

No, that Britain might intervene.

I always thought that it must have been self delusion on their part and that Britain would never aid a Slave Owning nation against a Free nation.
 
No, that Britain might intervene.

I always thought that it must have been self delusion on their part and that Britain would never aid a Slave Owning nation against a Free nation.
I'm not sure of the language in your post. Do you mean a self delusion of the South that the British would intervene militarily if they were successful enough? Or that the North was deluding itself into thinking the British would never intervene?

I'm not challenging your post, just asking for clarification of WHO you are referring to.:confused:
 

67th Tigers

Banned
With a British/French recognition, and a refusal of the Union to accept Britain's offer to mediate, does the refusal of the offer constitute a sufficient Casus Belli? And what will the reaction be in Parliament? Wouldn't it mean a fairly naked act of aggression by the Royal Navy to attack the Union blockaders? It WOULD be an attack. The two fleets aren't simply going to sail past each other. Wouldn't things get pretty murky politically for the British back home? Unless, ofcourse, you are acting under the belief that the Yankees will run away. I really have no answer to that argument. If your theories are based on one side running away at every opportunity, then the other side will be quite invincible.:D

It would be the US declaring "war", Adam's instructions were clear.
 
Something just occurred to me, and I'm embarrassed it took me this long. The whole objective for armies in the war was other armies, not cities, not even capitals. In the Civil War the Army holed up in Ft. Donelson was captured. The Confederate Army at Shiloh was nearly destroyed, the Confederate Army of the Mississippi was lost at Vicksburg, the Confederate Army at Missionary Ridge was scattered, and the newly formed Army of Tennessee was totally destroyed at Nashville. This was 5 Confederate Armies lost or scattered to the four winds. This NEVER happened to the North!

Destroying a Northern Army, preferably the Army of the Potomac, and doing it north of Washington, was the South's true strategic objective. Bad as the results of 1st Bull Run were, Patterson's army in the Shenandoah was still available to cover the city. Considering the shape of Patterson's forces versus the Southern forces, it's very hard to see how such an exhausted force could overwhelm such a sizable force as Patterson's while they were still moderately fresh. Was there ever another chance? Chickamauga, perhaps? Or was that too late in the war?
 
We'll whups 'em where we caughts 'em, wit Southern guts and steel!

I want to see the Confederate Army take New York City
Don't worry. I'm sure there are TL's to that effect. And for that matter you can add Chicago, Boston, Philadelphia, Pittsburg, Cleveland, Detroit, Des Moines, Albany, Burlington, Bangor, and if they wanted to Montreal, Quebec City, Ottawa, Toronto, Halifax, Newfoundland, Cuba, Mexico, Dublin, Glasgow, Liverpool, Manchester, Southampton, London, Paris, Berlin, Rome, Warsaw, St. Petersburg, Moscow, Kiev, Istanbul, New Delhi, Colombo, and Tibet.
 
What establishes the CSA as a nation if the Union is still fighting?


If the Union is seen as fighting in vain, or ineffectively. Consequently, if a Confederate victory at Sharpsburg or Gettysburg had forced the Union onto a defensive on its own soil. The war was never as much the South's to win as it was the North's to lose. That was one reason why Lincoln couldn't take political opinion in the Union for granted.

Confederates take New York? Only if there was chaos in the Union, if some other issue had caused their armies to collapse or simply go home. Otherwise New York was too deep in Union territory for the Confederates to operate.

The Royal Navy could challenge the blockade, but would only do so if the British were willing to fight. They could also manufacture of a Gulf of Tonkin type of incident on the blockade, but again only if they were willing to fight.

While the British saw economic and political advantages in a Southern Republic, they were never willing to spill their own blood to help create one. They worried about the effect on their colonial interests in Canada, Bermuda, the Bahamas and Jamaica. British entry into the war would have required a provocation like the Trent Incident which directly impacted the reputation of the British Empire. That is why Lincoln's policy was to avoid any such incident at all costs, even if he had to humiliate his own administration to avoid such a situation.
 

Cook

Banned
I'm not sure of the language in your post. Do you mean a self delusion of the South that the British would intervene militarily if they were successful enough? Or that the North was deluding itself into thinking the British would never intervene?

I'm not challenging your post, just asking for clarification of WHO you are referring to.:confused:

That’s alright, check back on the previous posts.

I had thought that the Confederate leadership’s hope of British intervention in the American Civil war was pure self delusion. Britain at the time of the ACW had abolished Slavery throughout the Empire and the Royal Navy maintained an Anti-slavery squadron off the coast of West Africa.
 
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