Confederate Victory map

I would just be curious, if the confederates won, or tied or Survived, what would its map look like? Would some or all Border States be included? Would C.S.A Arizona territory and claimed new mexico territory be included? Whats West Virginia's fate if theres a POD after 1863 (however unlikely a confederate win after that is.....) Would Indian Territory join the confederates? Would the Confederacy demand land they didn' ever control from the union?

If it was a Stalemate, would the Union keeped its occupied positions?

Here is atleast initialy what the Confederacy was:

Map_of_CSA_4.png
 

The Dude

Banned
I don't think West Virginia or taking Missouri is very plausible. Kentucky is a maybe. Arizona is a no. Even if they won, the United States would still, I think, be able to hold all of New Mexico and Arizona. That's pretty much the way it worked in my TL.
 
I feel Kentucky and Missouri would be The Netherlands during the World Wars: Stepped on a lot, and With guerilla resistence from both sides.
As for New Mexico, That will become occupied by the Union quickly.
 
Ok, and as for Missouri which had two governments claiming authority, could we see a north and south missouri? Also If virginia keeps West Virginia, I want them to get rid of that stupid panhandle. Just let Pennsylvannia Annex it or something, maybe a Pro Union Government in exile and a rump state of Virginia?
 

The Dude

Banned
Ok, and as for Missouri which had two governments claiming authority, could we see a north and south missouri? Also If virginia keeps West Virginia, I want them to get rid of that stupid panhandle. Just let Pennsylvannia Annex it or something, maybe a Pro Union Government in exile and a rump state of Virginia?
I seriously doubt that West VA could be Confederate in the first place, as the entire reason for it's split with the rest of Virginia was the fact that most people who lived there were pro-Union. If they do take it, expect to see some rather large guerrilla resistance.
 
Ok, and as for Missouri which had two governments claiming authority, could we see a north and south missouri? Also If virginia keeps West Virginia, I want them to get rid of that stupid panhandle. Just let Pennsylvannia Annex it or something, maybe a Pro Union Government in exile and a rump state of Virginia?

I'm all for some more space in PA!

South/North Missouri does seem like an option. That is what we did with Germany!

And If I may ask, do you think the Union would Dam the Mississipi to prevent it's use in the South? I'm just wondering.
 
And If I may ask, do you think the Union would Dam the Mississipi to prevent it's use in the South? I'm just wondering.

Well then you strand the Union Port of St.Louis, unless that becomes part of the C.S.A. Its an idea, but it would hurt the union as well. Plus there are Tributaries South of Union Control, the River would be reduced but not dried up.
 
Well then you strand the Union Port of St.Louis, unless that becomes part of the C.S.A. Its an idea, but it would hurt the union as well. Plus there are Tributaries South of Union Control, the River would be reduced but not dried up.

There are all sorts of ways the Union could wage economic warfare against the Confederacy if the two remain on bad terms. However, I tend to think that economic and cultural ties will remain strong, so the two will probably reconcile and have cordial relations after one or two generations.

Remember that the South is controlled by a slave-owning planter aristocracy who will block any attempt at industrialization. This will really hurt them when the boll weevil hits and if and when cotton prices collapse when Egypt and India start exporting. Poor economic conditions will lead to mass emigration of whites to the USA (historically, blacks migrated, but they'll still be enslaved and tied to the land in this TL, so they won't be able to), which could over time leave the CSA majority black.

Slavery, though it's a very inefficient economic system, isn't really about economics or profit: it's about social control of the black population. Furthermore, the Confederate constitution makes its abolition very difficult. Even if a state abolished slavery, somebody from another state could still move there, buy land, and use his slaves to work it. Slavery in the CSA will die a VERY hard death, and probably won't vanish until the mid-20th century.
 

Anaxagoras

Banned
And If I may ask, do you think the Union would Dam the Mississipi to prevent it's use in the South? I'm just wondering.

Not unless they wanted to economically cripple the western states of the Union as well. The Yankees would be despereate to ensure free passage down the Mississippi River in any peace negotiation.
 
If the CSA wins a clear military victory who knows?

If the CSA wins a peace of exhaustion due to Lincoln losing in 1864 then none of the claimed territory nor West Virginia nor Arizona Territory.
 
Actually the ORFCS or Old River Flood Control System has had a tremendous effect on the Mississippi River. Without this the river would have changed its course decades ago and would now emerge in the Gulf of Mexico via the Atchafalaya River instead(near the Louisiana-Texas border).

Without the silt for several decades holding off the sea and building up the land the entire delta including New Orleans could be gone.
 

The Dude

Banned
Actually the ORFCS or Old River Flood Control System has had a tremendous effect on the Mississippi River. Without this the river would have changed its course decades ago and would now emerge in the Gulf of Mexico via the Atchafalaya River instead(near the Louisiana-Texas border).

Without the silt for several decades holding off the sea and building up the land the entire delta including New Orleans could be gone.
I'm not sure anyone would notice. *ba-dum-tish*
 
Actually the ORFCS or Old River Flood Control System has had a tremendous effect on the Mississippi River. Without this the river would have changed its course decades ago and would now emerge in the Gulf of Mexico via the Atchafalaya River instead(near the Louisiana-Texas border).

Without the silt for several decades holding off the sea and building up the land the entire delta including New Orleans could be gone.

Well, certainly, that structure is important, but it still hasn't stopped the river from going through the south. In fact, it's done almost the opposite by keeping the river flowing on its original course, even though the new course would still be going through the south.

And technically, those are dams on the Atchafalaya, not the Mississippi.
 
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