Confederate symbols/flags unpopular...

Has anyone seen or done a timeline with a Civil War ending with the defeat of the Confederacy, but where the Confederate flag and symbols not controversial; they are well known, and disliked/despised.

What would it take to get such a viewpoint on the rebellion? I suspect that foreign intervention that was unsuccessful might contribute to such--especially if the foreign intervention was right at the beginning, and was not successful.
 
Radical reconstruction might do it.

Or a shorter end to the war such that the rebels are seen as incompetent traitors rather than plucky heroes (see e.g. the Glorious Union or New Sparta TL)
 
FWIW, the actual government flags of the Confederacy (they used a couple of designs) are rarely flown by anyone; it's the battle flag of the Confederacy that is popular, for whatever reason.

So maybe have the South fight terribly and suffer a quick defeat?
 
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It is a symbol that has to do with individualism and a repeal of the federal government. I've spent most of my life in the South, and i have to disagree when people say its an inherently racist symbol.

First, yes it is racist. It is flown for racist purposes, such as Klan marches and the like. Its a symbol of white supremacy the world over.


However, it is not always displayed with those intentions. Belt buckles, window stickers, so on. There is a sentiment here that it really was about stopping the encroachment of the federal government, and that that kind of thing needs to be talked about and repeated. I'm not trying to get into an argument about what the civil war was over, because we cant know.

There is also a certain isolation to being in the south. The rest of the country is very disparaging, with southern accents being used on tv to show stupidity or bigotry. I once walked into a store that was floor to ceiling in confederate flag memorabilia. I think to some people, its about collective identity before its about the government or racism.

And speaking of which, the only time ive ever seen the flag flying on a flag pole or displayed on a wall was in the north.
 
PS: in response to the previous question: I doubt you can defeat a region of America so thoroughly and not end up with some kind of symbol to commemorate it.
 
AFAIK, they are unpopular. Flying a confederate flag is like saying to the world "hey, I'm a racist who may support the institution of slavery". The only exceptions to this are when it's part of a state flag (Mississippi, Arkansas) or when a black person does it (like Kanye West with his jacket).
 
AFAIK, they are unpopular. Flying a confederate flag is like saying to the world "hey, I'm a racist who may support the institution of slavery". The only exceptions to this are when it's part of a state flag (Mississippi, Arkansas) or when a black person does it (like Kanye West with his jacket).

Unpopular in parts of the US. They're so popular in the South that Georgia kicked out a popular governor for not even removing, but decreasing the size of the Confederate flag on the state flag.
 
Unpopular in parts of the US. They're so popular in the South that Georgia kicked out a popular governor for not even removing, but decreasing the size of the Confederate flag on the state flag.

Couldn't have been that popular, since they never put the Confederate battle flag back:

Georgiaflags.jpg


I've never spent an extended amount of time in Georgia. But I have spent a lot of time in Northern Florida, which is definitely the Deep South, and nobody flies the confederate flag there (except for this one guy I saw in a pickup trick with a New Hampshire license plate).

Edit: It's interesting how Georgia adopted the Confederate flag right when the Civil Rights movement began.
 
In some places, they are incredibly disliked and despised, and that includes some places where they flew historically...
 
Couldn't have been that popular, since they never put the Confederate battle flag back:

Georgiaflags.jpg


I've never spent an extended amount of time in Georgia. But I have spent a lot of time in Northern Florida, which is definitely the Deep South, and nobody flies the confederate flag there (except for this one guy I saw in a pickup trick with a New Hampshire license plate).

Edit: It's interesting how Georgia adopted the Confederate flag right when the Civil Rights movement began.

...Because they 'compromised' by making the state flag the Stars and Bars Confederate national flag, rather than the battle flag.

Compare with, say, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:CSA_FLAG_28.11.1861-1.5.1863.svg
 
Or a shorter end to the war such that the rebels are seen as incompetent traitors rather than plucky heroes (see e.g. the Glorious Union or New Sparta TL)

Or alternatively, have the South *win*, become a failed state riven with ethnic and socio-economic strife, and get re-annexed by the US. As far as I can tell part of the reason for the "plucky heroes" idea is that they never really had the chance to put their ideology into practice, so a lot of people don't know/ignore the likely effects of running a country along CSA lines.
 
A lot of the problem is, a number on both side are just thick. Some liberals always think it's racist, on the other hand there are some who fly it because they are racist. It is part of the history of, not just the South but of all the US. Anti big government types use it to say they hate the government. Others use as a flag of impedance from all those you would tell anyone what to do. In others cases, there are those who use it as fashion statement without really knowing what it is. I was told, weather this is true or not, that a group wanted to stop ACW actors (maybe doing that again myself later this year) from using it, because it's racist. There is no one size fits all, with the flag.
 
I wasn't wanting to get an argument going on the flag as it's seen in OTL, battle flag or national flag. I was just wondering what it would take for it to be, nationwide, not flown and any other symbols not used. (As far as in OTL, I've been in parts of Florida where it is common to see the battle flag flying.)

Perhaps if the CSA was a military disaster, with the USA steamrollering it in a hurry, it would be associated with incompetence?
 
Have this flag remain the Confederate Battle Flag:

170px-SC-SovFlag.svg.png



I'm pretty sure post-war popularity of the flag would sink quite dramatically from OTL if the original design was kept. It's just not as striking as the battle flag we know, and let's be honest, half the reason the battle flag is actually popular is because it looks cool. There's a reason the Stars and Bars aren't well known after all.
 
For the question, I suppose a quicker defeated CSA, or a CSA that wins and then collapses and is re-annexed by the United States would likely do the trick.
 
Mattruvinteess, what State flag was GA using during the ACW - ie what flag did her soldiers actually fight it under?

All the designs shown are obviously post-bellum.

The soldiers would have mainly fought under the Confederate battle flag, I imagine. Aside from a few iconic ones, like the Texas flag, state flags aren't used all that much. (For good reason - a lot of state flags are barely distinguishable from one another, as they frequently just have a coat of arms against a plain blue or white background.)

Per wikipedia, there seems to have been no official state flag of Georgia until 1880. This one apparently was used on an unofficial basis:

150px-Flag_of_Georgia_non_official.svg.png
 
They're pretty popular. I've seen the 'Confederate flag' (battle flag) flown in Maryland and West Virginia. It's morphed into a Southern pride flag instead of the symbol of slavery it is.

A quick and embarassing defeat for the CSA might make it unpopular. Or a longer and bloodier war, but that isn't likely to happen.
 
A longer lasting and independent CSA might do the trick, one that's forced back into the Union at a later date. Their flags only waved for a few years. While they were very bloody years they were few and it ended 149 years ago. Their descendants aren't exactly ashamed of what they did (I'm referring to the secede part not the slavery part).

I realize WWII didn't last all that long, but the Confederates weren't out for world domination and exterminating everyone they didn't like.
 
A second rising

I just now had a thought: If the south rebelled again, and did a lot of damage in many places (terrorism in parts of the south to bring intimidate people opposed to the rising being waged, bombings in the north, mass lynching, etc.) and got put down decisively, even the southerners might blame the rebels for the devastation. (In OTL, even many who hated British rule of Eire blamed Pearse and his crew for the devastation of Dublin.)
 
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