Confederacy in Central Powers?

Hi everybody. I've been viewing these forums for a long time now, and I finally decided to post. I actually joined a long time ago....

What kind of POD would be needed to get a Confederate States of America to join the Central Powers in WW1? Sorry if this is in the wrong forum, but it seemed like the best place for it.

-Chris
 
Hi everybody. I've been viewing these forums for a long time now, and I finally decided to post. I actually joined a long time ago....

What kind of POD would be needed to get a Confederate States of America to join the Central Powers in WW1? Sorry if this is in the wrong forum, but it seemed like the best place for it.

-Chris

A differant WW1. There are some rather major butterflies associated with Confederate victory. That a catastrophic global war will take place is not certain. That an alliance in the centre of Europe will form one side is even less certain. So really it's quite easy: WW1 could be anything, the CP could be anything.
 
Hmm.. yeah, that makes sense. What I was thinking was some sort of falling out between the Confederates and the British and French, as most likely, at least from what I know, relations between them would have been very good in the case of a Confederate victory. But indeed, the butterflys are wise, and... their the butterflys. :rolleyes:
 
Hi everybody. I've been viewing these forums for a long time now, and I finally decided to post. I actually joined a long time ago....

What kind of POD would be needed to get a Confederate States of America to join the Central Powers in WW1? Sorry if this is in the wrong forum, but it seemed like the best place for it.

-Chris


The cliche Confedarate Victory TL has Britian allying with the Confedaracy to win the Civil War, and then the USA joining the CP in a rematch, with the CSA on the Entente. But alot can switch this, depending on how the CSA wins. Lets say the USA tires of the Civil War, and the CSA win by default when Lincoln loses re-election. The USA tries to maintain a stable, safe democracy, and trades with GB alot as per OTL. This leads the USA to join Britians sphere of influence. Meanwhile, the CSA is invading large parts of Mexcio(they had plans to do this OTL), and as Germany emerges as a world power looking for colonies, the CSA is in a convienent location to help them out. The CSA helps Germany get colonies in America in exchange for money and arms, in violation of the Monroe Doctrine. Now we have GB and the USA(Entente) against Germany and the CSA(CP). I would assume that if Germany unification went anyway like OTL, France would join the Entente. But as I Blame Communism said, the factions of WW1 in the ATL, if it happens at all, could be totally different.
 
The cliche Confedarate Victory TL has Britian allying with the Confedaracy to win the Civil War, and then the USA joining the CP in a rematch, with the CSA on the Entente. But alot can switch this, depending on how the CSA wins. Lets say the USA tires of the Civil War, and the CSA win by default when Lincoln loses re-election. The USA tries to maintain a stable, safe democracy, and trades with GB alot as per OTL. This leads the USA to join Britians sphere of influence. Meanwhile, the CSA is invading large parts of Mexcio(they had plans to do this OTL), and as Germany emerges as a world power looking for colonies, the CSA is in a convienent location to help them out. The CSA helps Germany get colonies in America in exchange for money and arms, in violation of the Monroe Doctrine. Now we have GB and the USA(Entente) against Germany and the CSA(CP). I would assume that if Germany unification went anyway like OTL, France would join the Entente. But as I Blame Communism said, the factions of WW1 in the ATL, if it happens at all, could be totally different.
Interesting idea. And just to note, the "Central Powers" basically meant Germany, in any verison of WW1. An interesting part of this is that the most of the Carribean, Central America, and several South American nations joined the Entente, easily leading to a seperate theatre of war.
 
Hmm.. yeah, that makes sense. What I was thinking was some sort of falling out between the Confederates and the British and French, as most likely, at least from what I know, relations between them would have been very good in the case of a Confederate victory. But indeed, the butterflys are wise, and... their the butterflys. :rolleyes:

Well the confederate- Anglo/French relationship would probably be cordial at first, but if the slavery issue was not addressed to Anglo/French satisfaction (particularly British) then a gradual falling out could easily occur. That and the British/USA trade relationship is still likely to develop alongside the CSA interferring in a French dominated Mexico ( they help the Juaristas instead of the/US under the mistaken impression that they are actually likely to get something out of it, which of course they wouldn't) that would likely still result and the stage would be set...though the CSA could simply be a slightly central power leaning neutral in that course instead until the US position is known. A whole lot of CSA goods could flow through Amsterdam for a time.

of course my own personal preference in this case is a lineup along the lines of

CSA (because of the OP), GE, A-H, OE vs USA, Fr, Ru with late entry by IT as Entente ally

BE remains a neutral and eventual arbiter of peace agreement after say a mere three yrs. Japan can join whichever faction it thinks will net it the best gains ( I am thinking CP here as a move south would put it in range of the BE position, but hey anything is possible with them, (I suspect the BE would be counselling neutrality or a pro-entente entry though).
 
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Well, all things being equal, most of your southern victory timelines put the Confederacy close to Britain and/or France, which incidentally are Germany's main rivals. Even without direct intervention the British were sending weapons and supplies through the blockade as much as they could OTL. Grant was quite peturbed when Pemburton's army was using better weapons than his own remember.

Assuming the alliance system in Europe remains similar, you'd need to give the Confederacy a reason to get involved first.

OTL Germany tried to convince Mexico to invade the US in exchange for support and territory. Mexico had enough sense to say no, then again the Confederacy would be a larger power. So maybe if the US supports the Entente via a later entry, the Confederacy and Mexico could see it as advantageous to attack the US... maybe.

You could have Prussia get involved in the Civil War on the Confederacy's side... though that doesn't make much sense really, and they had a whole slew of other things going on at the time.

It's a hard one, basiclly you have to give the Confederates a reason to like Germany, or dislike Britain/France greatly.

Maybe have the French puppet in Mexico remain, and the Confederacy get greedy and want to sieze a land route to the Pacific..
 
I would place the POD in the Boer Wars.

1880~
Almost Ever since Lee managed to capture DC in 1862, and guaranteeing Confederate Victory, Britian had been pushing the CSA over it's Slavery.
The Friendship with France had latest a few years longer, allowing the CS to Buy Baja from Mexico, and giving the CS a pacific port to go with New Mexico.
However it to had given way.

The true death of Anglo-Confed relation had come when a British ship Caught the Old CSS Alabama Smuggling Arms and Ammo to the Boers in SAfrica. In response the British placed a Embargo on Imports from the CSA.
While some increase could go to France, France was industrially unable to replace Britain.
However during the War the Confederates had enjoyed good relations with the new nation of Germany. The Military observers from both Nations Being from the Calvary
While the Germans were upset over the CSA's maintenance of Slavery, they were less willing to allow their moral abhorrence to interfere with their Business.

However during the 1880's Brazil finally abolished Slavery, and the CS saw the Writing on the Wall. By the Mid 1890's steps were being taken to allow the CSA to abolish Slavery.

During the 1890's the CS Backed the Rebels in Cuba, smuggling Guns and Supplies to them.

In the 1896 Venezuela Crisis The CSA backed Germany, greatly increasing the relation between them.

In 1902 the 2nd Boer War broke out. For the proceeding twenty years the CS had enjoyed a Warm relation with the Boer Republics, and along with Germany voiced full support for the Boers.

Both Germany and the CSA again sent Military Observers, Here and 3 years later to Manchuria. There they learned lessons that would come in useful when the 3rd Balkan War exploded into the Great War.

While the CS never formally joined the Central Powers, It found itself at war with Britain, when the British moved to Stop a CS Convey to Germany, and sank several CS Ships.
 
Interesting idea. And just to note, the "Central Powers" basically meant Germany, in any verison of WW1. An interesting part of this is that the most of the Carribean, Central America, and several South American nations joined the Entente, easily leading to a seperate theatre of war.

They did this because they had nothing to lose. If Confederate invasion is on the table, they have a lot to lose, so they won't. Cuba, in any case joined because it was an American dependency, which it obviously wont be, whatever it is, in a Confederate victory TL.
 
They did this because they had nothing to lose. If Confederate invasion is on the table, they have a lot to lose, so they won't. Cuba, in any case joined because it was an American dependency, which it obviously wont be, whatever it is, in a Confederate victory TL.
That's a good point, I might not of thought of that(no surprise here, however :eek:)
 
That's a good point, I might not of thought of that(no surprise here, however :eek:)

I'd continue by adding that the Confederacy most likely has nothing to gain by entering WWI. What does the Confederacy stand to gain, even if U.S. is not involved? A war with the U.S. is the last thing any independent Confederacy wants at this point in time, unless the U.S. is otherwise involved against Britain.

Hmm...there's a thought. If the Central Powers include Britain, the U.S. might be enough more hostile towards it that the Confederates could be roped into some kind of defensive pact. It's still pretty unlikely, though.

I grew up in Carbon County, just south of Billings, by the way.
 
I'd continue by adding that the Confederacy most likely has nothing to gain by entering WWI. What does the Confederacy stand to gain, even if U.S. is not involved? A war with the U.S. is the last thing any independent Confederacy wants at this point in time, unless the U.S. is otherwise involved against Britain.

Hmm...there's a thought. If the Central Powers include Britain, the U.S. might be enough more hostile towards it that the Confederates could be roped into some kind of defensive pact. It's still pretty unlikely, though.
Point taken, the Confederacy likely has nothing to gain, depending on the situation.
I grew up in Carbon County, just south of Billings, by the way.
Cool :). You don't see too many people from Montana on forums of any sort.
 
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