Right, I've been fascinated by the eastern front recently, posting in multiple threads across multiple websites on the matter, basically, of whether or not hitler could have beaten Stalin and what the conditions needed were.
I've recently started reading Stalingrad, by Anthony Beevor (a truly brilliant explanation and well developed account of the battle and the lead up to it!!), and I came to this conclusion mainly: although people say that Moscow's defeat wouldn't have made the soviets surrender, I believe that it's capture in an earlier operation typhoon would have certainly given the soviets less chance to organise and rally the civilian population.
According to the book, even the early stages and successes of Barbarossa saw the Germans with relatively weak supply lines and lack of reinforcements (clothes oil mechanical parts etc). It was problems like this, along with stubborn soviet resistance, which made operations in the south challenging, and thus if the German economy had been prepared and streamlined for total war, the army would have been significantly stronger. Therefore, the simple claim that if hoth and guderian's panzer divisions (well supplied and more reliable) had pushed onto Moscow earlier and the city was captured faster before the winter came in, is not entirely as silly as some claim.
By no means am I saying that the Germans would have won, but with winter clothing, and better preparation in general (so for instance, specially developed oil which doesn't freeze in the conditions faced) the soviet high command would have had much less time to organise and raise the morale of the civilians- Zhukov wouldn't have been able to prepare the mobilisation of half a million civilians, and most importantly, the Germans would have kept the initiative. The soviets would have, for a while, remained in disarray.
The situation in Leningrad would have been similar, as the railway between it and Moscow would have been severed by hoths panzers either way. The movement of Siberian divisions would have been harder with Moscow captured.
Wow that was a mouthful, the outline of what my point is, with a total war declared earlier, prior to Barbarossa, and an earlier typhoon, the soviet disarray and panick would have continued into the winter,and if the relentless German blitzkrieg contining through winter, either a soviet coup would be imminent or the eventual and complete collapse of the red army.
I've recently started reading Stalingrad, by Anthony Beevor (a truly brilliant explanation and well developed account of the battle and the lead up to it!!), and I came to this conclusion mainly: although people say that Moscow's defeat wouldn't have made the soviets surrender, I believe that it's capture in an earlier operation typhoon would have certainly given the soviets less chance to organise and rally the civilian population.
According to the book, even the early stages and successes of Barbarossa saw the Germans with relatively weak supply lines and lack of reinforcements (clothes oil mechanical parts etc). It was problems like this, along with stubborn soviet resistance, which made operations in the south challenging, and thus if the German economy had been prepared and streamlined for total war, the army would have been significantly stronger. Therefore, the simple claim that if hoth and guderian's panzer divisions (well supplied and more reliable) had pushed onto Moscow earlier and the city was captured faster before the winter came in, is not entirely as silly as some claim.
By no means am I saying that the Germans would have won, but with winter clothing, and better preparation in general (so for instance, specially developed oil which doesn't freeze in the conditions faced) the soviet high command would have had much less time to organise and raise the morale of the civilians- Zhukov wouldn't have been able to prepare the mobilisation of half a million civilians, and most importantly, the Germans would have kept the initiative. The soviets would have, for a while, remained in disarray.
The situation in Leningrad would have been similar, as the railway between it and Moscow would have been severed by hoths panzers either way. The movement of Siberian divisions would have been harder with Moscow captured.
Wow that was a mouthful, the outline of what my point is, with a total war declared earlier, prior to Barbarossa, and an earlier typhoon, the soviet disarray and panick would have continued into the winter,and if the relentless German blitzkrieg contining through winter, either a soviet coup would be imminent or the eventual and complete collapse of the red army.