So, Lombardy will be TTL's Austria, geographically, right?Diamond said:Forgot to sum up the Lombards: Basically, they'll stay put territorially, and strengthen relations with both the Ostrogoths and Byzantines (trying to hedge their bets).
Composite TL II
- Thread starter DominusNovus
- Start date
Here's my update. Its overly detailed, but almost all of this stuff happened, I just changed it around a little.
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The first Roman Emperor of the 6th century was Anastasius, who reigned from AD 491 to 518. He was a devout Monophysite, which put him often at odds with the Orthodox establishment in Constantinople. He tried to install Monophysite Patriarchs, but faced riots. As a compromise to avoid further unrest, he had several laws passed to protect religious freedom for both Orthodox and Monophysite Christians. Other sects, such as Arianism, and other religions were not protected, however.
The Empire would find itself at war with Persia in AD 502, and suffered several setbacks early in the war. However, they were able to turn the tide of the war and made peace with Persia in 506. Anastasius then focused on building up the eastern defenses, especially at Daras.
Anastasius recognized Theodoric as king of Italy in AD 497, and worked to keep relations with the Ostrogoths peaceful throughout his reign. This cost the Romans some territory in Pannonia, but allowed them to bolster their Danube defenses against Bulgar raids. An expedition against the Bulgars was launched in 510, and was moderately successful, although the commander of the expedition, Vitalian, was killed in the fighting.
Anatasius also reformed the coinage system and taxation system. The tax system became more efficient and many taxes were actually lowered. At his death, Anastasius left a surplus of 220,00 lbs. of gold (100,00 less than in OTL, due to increased spending on border defenses).
Anastasius would be succeeded by Justin, commander of the excubitors, the elite palace guard. Justin reigned from AD 518 to 527. He broke with Anastasius' pro-Monophysite policies, though he did not repeal any of their legal protections. He did, however, support the Orthodox efforts to persecute them through religious channels. Still, these were almost totally ineffectual in Monophysite majority areas, and there were few problems, though Justin did have to reign in some of the more zealous members of the Orthodoxy.
All of this put Pope Hormisdas in a bind, as, on the one hand, he wanted to heal the wounds between the Orthodoxy of the East and West, and, on the other hand, he had to accommodate the Arians in the West. He tried to bring the Monophysites back into the fold, but had to abandon this effort when several clergy members criticized him for "attacking heretics that he would never face, while bowing before others". The end result of all this is that the Monophysites were free from persecution for the time being. Theodoric, meanwhile, kept relations with the Ostrogoths on good terms, partially by allowing the Arians in the Empire some degree of liberty, mainly because the Popes had to as well.
Things were not as smooth with Persia. Tzath, the King of Lazica (Colchis), a land regarded as a satellite of Persia, had gone to Constantinople to be baptized and crowned king in AD 522. This incensed Kavadh, king of Persia, who negotiated an alliance with Zilbigi, the king of the Sabiric Huns in the Caucasus, to attack the Romans. However, Zilbigi negotiated an alliance with the Romans as well. Justin let this leak to Kavadh. When confronted, Zilbigi confessed, and narrowly escaped the Persians with his life. Nearly half of the 20,000 Huns with him were not so lucky.
Justin managed to patch things together with Zilbigi, avoiding a potential conflict there. However, Kavadh now had a newfound sense of respect for Justin, and asked Justin to adopt his third son, Khusro, so that he could be the legitimate heir to the Persian throne (the eldest son favored a rebelious religious sect, and the second had lost an eye, making him ineligible). Justine refused to adopt him according to Roman law, as Khusro would then have a claim to the imperial throne, and offered to adopt him according to barbaric custom. This was unacceptable.
Kavadh then moved against the kingdom of Iberia, in the Caucasus. Justin decided to defend the Christian state, and sent Probus, nephew of Anastasius, to secure the aid of the Bosporan Huns for the Iberians. In the meantime, Zilbigi's Sabiric Huns went to aid the Iberians. The Persians were slowed by Zilbigi, long enough for Probus to come down with a force of Bosporan Huns. The Persians were now bogged down in Iberia.
Justin eventually launched raids into Persarmenia (the Persian controlled area of Armenia), under Sittas and Belisarius. The Persians were forced to abandon Iberia and face them. Sittas and Belisarius were prevented from making any progress, but they tied down the Persian army in Persarmenia. This allowed Probus and Zilbigi to attack Caucasian Albania, on the Caspian Sea.
Eventually, peace would be reached, with Lazica, Iberia, and Albania confirmed as client of the Romans, while Persarmenia lost a sliver of northern territory.
Justin would be succeeded by Justinian, his nephew and adopted son, who also was a major power behind Justin's administration. Justinian would rule from AD 527 to AD 565. He and his wife, Theodora, would be some of the greatest rulers of the Empire.
Justinian would vigorously persecute the Manichaeans, pagans, and Samaritans. Jews were treated fairly well, as were the Monophysites (Theodora herself was a Monophysite). Arians would not fair as well after Harbidus succeeded Theodoric in the west, as Harbidus was Orthodox himself, thus negating the political reasons for tolerating Arianism. The only major unrest Justinian faced was the infamous Nike Revolt, but his reaction to the revolt left Justinian firmly in control and gave him the opportunity to restore the Hagia Sophia to its present glory.
The Romans and Persians would go to war in 529, when the Persians attacked the Roman fortress of Daras, which was built in violation of treaty obligations. Belisarius defeated the Persians at Daras and defeated them again at Callinicum. Sittas meanwhile invaded Persarmenia. When Kavadh died and was succeeded by Khusro, the Persians began to seek peace, so Khusro could consolidate his position. However, the Romans were wining, and Justinian wanted, at the very least, Armenia. The Romans continued to win victories until 536, when Khusro accepted Roman control of all of Armenia. The Persians and Romans would go to war again in the 540s, though Justinian negotiated a peace by paying a moderate indemnity.
The rest of Justinians' reign would be fairly peaceful and uneventful, except for the coming of the Bubonic Plague in AD 542. Justinian also reformed the legal structure of the Empire with the Codex Justinianus.
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The first Roman Emperor of the 6th century was Anastasius, who reigned from AD 491 to 518. He was a devout Monophysite, which put him often at odds with the Orthodox establishment in Constantinople. He tried to install Monophysite Patriarchs, but faced riots. As a compromise to avoid further unrest, he had several laws passed to protect religious freedom for both Orthodox and Monophysite Christians. Other sects, such as Arianism, and other religions were not protected, however.
The Empire would find itself at war with Persia in AD 502, and suffered several setbacks early in the war. However, they were able to turn the tide of the war and made peace with Persia in 506. Anastasius then focused on building up the eastern defenses, especially at Daras.
Anastasius recognized Theodoric as king of Italy in AD 497, and worked to keep relations with the Ostrogoths peaceful throughout his reign. This cost the Romans some territory in Pannonia, but allowed them to bolster their Danube defenses against Bulgar raids. An expedition against the Bulgars was launched in 510, and was moderately successful, although the commander of the expedition, Vitalian, was killed in the fighting.
Anatasius also reformed the coinage system and taxation system. The tax system became more efficient and many taxes were actually lowered. At his death, Anastasius left a surplus of 220,00 lbs. of gold (100,00 less than in OTL, due to increased spending on border defenses).
Anastasius would be succeeded by Justin, commander of the excubitors, the elite palace guard. Justin reigned from AD 518 to 527. He broke with Anastasius' pro-Monophysite policies, though he did not repeal any of their legal protections. He did, however, support the Orthodox efforts to persecute them through religious channels. Still, these were almost totally ineffectual in Monophysite majority areas, and there were few problems, though Justin did have to reign in some of the more zealous members of the Orthodoxy.
All of this put Pope Hormisdas in a bind, as, on the one hand, he wanted to heal the wounds between the Orthodoxy of the East and West, and, on the other hand, he had to accommodate the Arians in the West. He tried to bring the Monophysites back into the fold, but had to abandon this effort when several clergy members criticized him for "attacking heretics that he would never face, while bowing before others". The end result of all this is that the Monophysites were free from persecution for the time being. Theodoric, meanwhile, kept relations with the Ostrogoths on good terms, partially by allowing the Arians in the Empire some degree of liberty, mainly because the Popes had to as well.
Things were not as smooth with Persia. Tzath, the King of Lazica (Colchis), a land regarded as a satellite of Persia, had gone to Constantinople to be baptized and crowned king in AD 522. This incensed Kavadh, king of Persia, who negotiated an alliance with Zilbigi, the king of the Sabiric Huns in the Caucasus, to attack the Romans. However, Zilbigi negotiated an alliance with the Romans as well. Justin let this leak to Kavadh. When confronted, Zilbigi confessed, and narrowly escaped the Persians with his life. Nearly half of the 20,000 Huns with him were not so lucky.
Justin managed to patch things together with Zilbigi, avoiding a potential conflict there. However, Kavadh now had a newfound sense of respect for Justin, and asked Justin to adopt his third son, Khusro, so that he could be the legitimate heir to the Persian throne (the eldest son favored a rebelious religious sect, and the second had lost an eye, making him ineligible). Justine refused to adopt him according to Roman law, as Khusro would then have a claim to the imperial throne, and offered to adopt him according to barbaric custom. This was unacceptable.
Kavadh then moved against the kingdom of Iberia, in the Caucasus. Justin decided to defend the Christian state, and sent Probus, nephew of Anastasius, to secure the aid of the Bosporan Huns for the Iberians. In the meantime, Zilbigi's Sabiric Huns went to aid the Iberians. The Persians were slowed by Zilbigi, long enough for Probus to come down with a force of Bosporan Huns. The Persians were now bogged down in Iberia.
Justin eventually launched raids into Persarmenia (the Persian controlled area of Armenia), under Sittas and Belisarius. The Persians were forced to abandon Iberia and face them. Sittas and Belisarius were prevented from making any progress, but they tied down the Persian army in Persarmenia. This allowed Probus and Zilbigi to attack Caucasian Albania, on the Caspian Sea.
Eventually, peace would be reached, with Lazica, Iberia, and Albania confirmed as client of the Romans, while Persarmenia lost a sliver of northern territory.
Justin would be succeeded by Justinian, his nephew and adopted son, who also was a major power behind Justin's administration. Justinian would rule from AD 527 to AD 565. He and his wife, Theodora, would be some of the greatest rulers of the Empire.
Justinian would vigorously persecute the Manichaeans, pagans, and Samaritans. Jews were treated fairly well, as were the Monophysites (Theodora herself was a Monophysite). Arians would not fair as well after Harbidus succeeded Theodoric in the west, as Harbidus was Orthodox himself, thus negating the political reasons for tolerating Arianism. The only major unrest Justinian faced was the infamous Nike Revolt, but his reaction to the revolt left Justinian firmly in control and gave him the opportunity to restore the Hagia Sophia to its present glory.
The Romans and Persians would go to war in 529, when the Persians attacked the Roman fortress of Daras, which was built in violation of treaty obligations. Belisarius defeated the Persians at Daras and defeated them again at Callinicum. Sittas meanwhile invaded Persarmenia. When Kavadh died and was succeeded by Khusro, the Persians began to seek peace, so Khusro could consolidate his position. However, the Romans were wining, and Justinian wanted, at the very least, Armenia. The Romans continued to win victories until 536, when Khusro accepted Roman control of all of Armenia. The Persians and Romans would go to war again in the 540s, though Justinian negotiated a peace by paying a moderate indemnity.
The rest of Justinians' reign would be fairly peaceful and uneventful, except for the coming of the Bubonic Plague in AD 542. Justinian also reformed the legal structure of the Empire with the Codex Justinianus.
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Diamond
Banned
DominusNovus said:
So basically what you did was sum up what went on in Byzantium, and things that happened in other regions that directly affected Byzantium, right? I'll post mine tomorrow.
That means there will be some overlap every time we do our 50-year descriptions, but if we can keep this TL going and get more familiar with each other's styles, it shouldn't be a problem.
Right?
Sounds like a plan. I kinda felt bad stuff about the Pope, but I didn't change too much about what he did.Diamond said:So basically what you did was sum up what went on in Byzantium, and things that happened in other regions that directly affected Byzantium, right? I'll post mine tomorrow.
That means there will be some overlap every time we do our 50-year descriptions, but if we can keep this TL going and get more familiar with each other's styles, it shouldn't be a problem.
Right?
We really are gonna have to figure out what to do about the Athanasian v. Arian v. Monophysite problem. I really don't feel like persecuting the Monophysites (cuz I know I'll regret it when the Muslims come), but I'd like to keep the Orthodox Church purely Athanasian.
The Anglicans/Episcopalian masses are almost identical to the Catholic masses (though its been a long time since i've been to an episcopal mass). They are, after all, Catholic Lite.DuQuense said:
The Lutherans have a different structure to their services. Much less ritual. Much simpler. And their pews tend to be comfier.
I was considering just having an official schism, but that means that the State has to detach itself from the Church, which is easier said than done.
The turn of the century saw Clovis, King of the Franks, continueing the policies of the years before. Attacking any groups of people not already under his control. Though a brutal man(he enjoyed personally executing prisoners) he had the church on his side, and so gained the loyalty of his Roman subjects easier then his Germanic brothers in Spain and Italy. By 506 he finished his war with the Alamanni adding parts of Germany to his controlIn 507 he was asked by the the eastern Roman Emperor to drive the Visigoths from Gaul. War was averted when the Ostrogothic King Theoderic, the father-in-law of Visigothic ruler Alaric, stepped in to negotiate a peace. In return for a continued peace both Gothic nations agreed to pledge no aid to the Burgundians in case of a war between them and the Franks. Bare months after war was averted the Frankish hordes swept into Burgundy, attacking Burgund garrisons, sometimes with the support of romanized peasents led by Catholic priests. After two unsuccesful uprising the Burgunds settled under Frankish control. A year before his death in 511 he sent his two sons Childebert and Chlotar to punish the Saxons of the lower Rhine(Netherlands) for raiding Frankish lands. Both sons died at the in battle near the the city of Aachen, after their force of 3,000 Franks became divided, allowing the Saxons to defeat each half of the Franks seperatly. The war unfinished, Clovis died in 511, dividing his empire between his sons Theuderic and Chlodomer. Both sons continued the war until its end in 518, adding most of the land west of the Weser, though leaving the majority of the Saxon nation intact. The empire dividing east and west (Chlodomer in the east and Theuderic in the West) by this time friction became evident between the two brothers. small raids and pitched battles between a few dozen men became common place. In 524 Chlodomer died leaving his sons Theudovald, Gunthar, Chlodovald to inheirit his lands. In the midst of subduing the Thuringens, Theudric and his adult son Theudebert invaded the east hoping to seize a chance to united the all the Franks behind them. The Thuringens revolted meanwhile, adding another side to the war of succession. Five years of infighting ended with only Chlodovald living of the three brothers and Theudric's son Theudebert dead. The renewal of Saxon incursions, some even from Brittania, and revolts in Thruringia and Burgundy forced Theudric and Chlodovald to negotiate. With his only heir dead, Theudric warily agreed to adopt Chlodovald in return for Chlodovald giving control of his claimed lands to him.
Will finish later.
Will finish later.
Toulouse
After succeeding to the throne of his dead father King Euric, Alaric II proved to be a weak king. In 486 he surrendered to Clovis I, King of the Franks, Syagrius, the last Roman general in Gaul. The highlight of his reign was when he in 506 wrote the Breviary of Alaric setting laws for his Roman subjects. In 508 Alaric, reacting to increased hostility with the Suevi, attacked. Alaric’s campaign was an absolute failure. Alaric was killed within three months of fighting after a lethal fall from his horse. With their leader down the Visigoth hordes fell into turmoil. Out of the chaos stepped Recardault, a low ranking Visigoth officer hardly known. After regrouping the armies and now outnumbered he defeated the Suevi utilizing superior tactics, winning the battle and killing their king. Visigoth forces then fell back keeping no new territory. As according to custom the Visigoth nobles met to elect the new king. With Alaric II’s name and reputation soiled the nobles were unsure of who to crown. Some cried to crown Recardault, the heroic general while others wanted Alaric’s son (Alemaric) to take control when he was old enough. Accounts of the council are widely varied but one popular version states that Arevagni (daughter of Theorodic, wife of Alaric, mother of Alemaric) came to speak before the nobles. She spoke so passionately for her son that the nobles elected him to be the next king, and her as his regent. In 509 Arevagni married Recardault in Toulouse. Alemaric, still a boy, was to be given the best education in war from his hero stepfather and also political wisdom from his mother. The youth was bright and caught on to concepts fast. By 516 Alemaric, 16 years old, was noted to be the most cunning of the Visigoth generals and was nicknamed the Fox. In 517, the Suevi under a new, aggressive king attacked the Spanish Peninsula en force. Citizens in Spain were horrified at the brutality of the Suevi attacks- massacring villages, stealing women, destroying cities- not even their heretic rulers were as brutal as the Suevi. Recardault with Alemaric at his side confronted the Suevi stopped the Suevi army. They then split their forces and counter attacked the ‘barbarians.’ The Suevi put up stiff resistance but ultimately fell because of the increased numbers and strange battle tactics of the young Alemaric. In 518 Alemaric was crowned king of Toulouse. Note: after 518 we begin to see more and more conversions to Arianism, very probably because of the popularity of the king. The next decade was relatively peaceful for the young king. Married to a daughter of Clovis: Chrotilda he sired seven sons and four daughters (up for grabs if anyone wants em). Alemaric’s great concern was the unification of his empire and instituted a number of reforms to unify his territory. In 520 he stopped the ban on interracial marriages, allowing anyone to marry who they like. He wrote the Breviary of Alemaric in 525, giving laws for both Romans and Visigoths. In stark contrast of previous rulers he treated the Jews surprisingly well. He used them for primarily for loans, but it is also said for spying. The Jews were so enamored with the young king that even 500 years later Sepharidic Jews name their children after him.
A warrior at heart, Alemaric grew restless. In 522 he held the first Tournament, not wanting his men to grow soft in a rich land, pitting men against each other one on one, and sometimes in groups. By 530 the games became so popular that they were held inside packed and refurbished Roman Amphitheaters. He held mock battles regularly and set up a school in Toledo aimed at training officers in strategy, tactics and the all around arts of war. Conscious of the southward moving trend of German tribes he also bolstered his northern defenses. In 545, his wife Chrotilda died. He quickly remarried (it was said that although they respected one another, they hated each other immensely) a Vasconian noblewoman Eguskina, entrenching the strange diffusion of Vasconian culture into Visigothic. In the Spring of 549 while touring what was Sueviland with his new wife in a strange twist of fate he died the same way as his father, falling off a horse. The Visigothic and noblemen met and elected his son Alaric III as king.
After succeeding to the throne of his dead father King Euric, Alaric II proved to be a weak king. In 486 he surrendered to Clovis I, King of the Franks, Syagrius, the last Roman general in Gaul. The highlight of his reign was when he in 506 wrote the Breviary of Alaric setting laws for his Roman subjects. In 508 Alaric, reacting to increased hostility with the Suevi, attacked. Alaric’s campaign was an absolute failure. Alaric was killed within three months of fighting after a lethal fall from his horse. With their leader down the Visigoth hordes fell into turmoil. Out of the chaos stepped Recardault, a low ranking Visigoth officer hardly known. After regrouping the armies and now outnumbered he defeated the Suevi utilizing superior tactics, winning the battle and killing their king. Visigoth forces then fell back keeping no new territory. As according to custom the Visigoth nobles met to elect the new king. With Alaric II’s name and reputation soiled the nobles were unsure of who to crown. Some cried to crown Recardault, the heroic general while others wanted Alaric’s son (Alemaric) to take control when he was old enough. Accounts of the council are widely varied but one popular version states that Arevagni (daughter of Theorodic, wife of Alaric, mother of Alemaric) came to speak before the nobles. She spoke so passionately for her son that the nobles elected him to be the next king, and her as his regent. In 509 Arevagni married Recardault in Toulouse. Alemaric, still a boy, was to be given the best education in war from his hero stepfather and also political wisdom from his mother. The youth was bright and caught on to concepts fast. By 516 Alemaric, 16 years old, was noted to be the most cunning of the Visigoth generals and was nicknamed the Fox. In 517, the Suevi under a new, aggressive king attacked the Spanish Peninsula en force. Citizens in Spain were horrified at the brutality of the Suevi attacks- massacring villages, stealing women, destroying cities- not even their heretic rulers were as brutal as the Suevi. Recardault with Alemaric at his side confronted the Suevi stopped the Suevi army. They then split their forces and counter attacked the ‘barbarians.’ The Suevi put up stiff resistance but ultimately fell because of the increased numbers and strange battle tactics of the young Alemaric. In 518 Alemaric was crowned king of Toulouse. Note: after 518 we begin to see more and more conversions to Arianism, very probably because of the popularity of the king. The next decade was relatively peaceful for the young king. Married to a daughter of Clovis: Chrotilda he sired seven sons and four daughters (up for grabs if anyone wants em). Alemaric’s great concern was the unification of his empire and instituted a number of reforms to unify his territory. In 520 he stopped the ban on interracial marriages, allowing anyone to marry who they like. He wrote the Breviary of Alemaric in 525, giving laws for both Romans and Visigoths. In stark contrast of previous rulers he treated the Jews surprisingly well. He used them for primarily for loans, but it is also said for spying. The Jews were so enamored with the young king that even 500 years later Sepharidic Jews name their children after him.
A warrior at heart, Alemaric grew restless. In 522 he held the first Tournament, not wanting his men to grow soft in a rich land, pitting men against each other one on one, and sometimes in groups. By 530 the games became so popular that they were held inside packed and refurbished Roman Amphitheaters. He held mock battles regularly and set up a school in Toledo aimed at training officers in strategy, tactics and the all around arts of war. Conscious of the southward moving trend of German tribes he also bolstered his northern defenses. In 545, his wife Chrotilda died. He quickly remarried (it was said that although they respected one another, they hated each other immensely) a Vasconian noblewoman Eguskina, entrenching the strange diffusion of Vasconian culture into Visigothic. In the Spring of 549 while touring what was Sueviland with his new wife in a strange twist of fate he died the same way as his father, falling off a horse. The Visigothic and noblemen met and elected his son Alaric III as king.
Cool. As a champion of Orthodoxy, I must official be apalled at the increase in conversions to Arianism.
I smell Causus Belli... heh heh heh
Actually, I think that the only way to keep Arianism around is if you keep the Goths and Romans seperate (no marrying). The Catholic Orthodox Church is just to rich... But, then again, I'm biased.
I smell Causus Belli... heh heh heh
Actually, I think that the only way to keep Arianism around is if you keep the Goths and Romans seperate (no marrying). The Catholic Orthodox Church is just to rich... But, then again, I'm biased.
Cow Defender,
I think your addition to the TL is good; however, how are Arianism and Catholicism/Orthodoxy going to interact in the Gothic lands? Will my idea about the results (Deity of Christ accepted, but the church is less statist/centralized) factor in?
I think your addition to the TL is good; however, how are Arianism and Catholicism/Orthodoxy going to interact in the Gothic lands? Will my idea about the results (Deity of Christ accepted, but the church is less statist/centralized) factor in?
damn religions
Matt- i really cannot tell you at this point. i still haven't figured it out. Your idea is viable but...hmmm. I like your decentralization nonstate church. maybe the new church will accept the deity of christ but not stress it- instead of focusing on the crucifiction, the new church may focus on the teachings of christ (like in the gospel of thomas and the jesus sutras). i don't know how well the peaceful message will go with warrior germans though... what do you think?
Matt- i really cannot tell you at this point. i still haven't figured it out. Your idea is viable but...hmmm. I like your decentralization nonstate church. maybe the new church will accept the deity of christ but not stress it- instead of focusing on the crucifiction, the new church may focus on the teachings of christ (like in the gospel of thomas and the jesus sutras). i don't know how well the peaceful message will go with warrior germans though... what do you think?