Composite TL II

DominusNovus

Straha said:
say.. a rastafarian-animist-christian mix. Not a bad idea.
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CD! Don't encourage him! This is the guy who wanted to invade my other TLs with The Race! And I know he'll try to sneak it into this one too! :rolleyes:

And Axum is one of the most devout Christian nations. The Ethiopians (and Salassie in particular) were quite horrified with the Rastafarian ideas. Besides, you can't get Rastafarianism until you have Ras Tafari (Hailie Salassie [sic]).

Also, why does marijuana have to be such a major focus in Straha TLs? Most timelines have liquor legal, but you don't see any focus on that.
 

Straha

Banned
dude whats your problem? jsut cill and stop being an ass. What TL was I planning to ivnade wit tye race?
 

Diamond

Banned
Yeah dude, jsut cill! But Straha has come perilously close to ivnading one of my TLs wit tye race... ;) En eye wun stad fir ite.
 

MerryPrankster

All right, today @ work I had a moment of inspiration for the long-term future of the TL. Here goes...

1) We pull off Dominus's Crusade against the Vikings. This'll be a pretty big deal in and of itself. If you want to get it going soon, perhaps some Vikings aid their co-culturalist Saxons against Arthur and friends and that leads to bad blood that gets REALLY bad when the real "Viking Age" begins.

2) Lots of Viking refugees go down the Volga and Danube, setting up various statelets somewhat resembling OTL's. The beginnings of the Russian state. I might be able to swing some of these, as Russia is my responsibility.

3) These grow into the Russian states of OTL. If the Crusaders are Western Christians (probably...hard-core anti-injustice stuff of the Visigothic-Catholics), the Russians could adopt Orthodoxy, or perhaps they remain disorganized-Norse-pagan (all the easier to convert them to Nestorianism).

4) The Mongols arrive and conquer these states. The Mongol elites largely convert to Nestorian Christianity, while Islam becomes popular among the commoners. Increased contacts between the Nestorians in the East and the Western Christians lead the West to acknowledge the Nestorians as fellow Christians.

5) Tamerlane (or someone like him) is brought to power in a popular revolution. He begins persecuting the ex-elite and common Nestorians, with full-on genocide the ultimate goal.

6) The Western Christians launch a new Crusade against Tamerlane for his murder and mutilation of fellow Christians. This puts an end to the shenanigans, at least temporarily.

7) A Central Asian Saladin arises and defeats the Crusaders. He's very anti-Nestorian (he views them as collaborators) and fearing a renewal of the vicious persecutions, they get the heck out of dodge and head for Russia, where perhaps some elements of the Nestorian Mongols still rule (something analogous to the Golden Horde).

8) Due to increased intermarriage with the populace (no religious difference; the GH was Muslim, while TTL Nestorian Mongols are Christians), there's some cultural mixing. We have

(drumroll please)

The Russian Khanate; Ruler is the Khan of All Russias. Official religion is Nestorian Christianity; unsure whether to have church-state separation or not.

9) Delayed discovery of North America, as the Crusade has kept the Eastern trade routes open for awhile longer than OTL.

Do y'all like this? Some have said that very long-term future planning is a bad idea, so if y'all have caveats or want a totally different future, feel free to let 'em rip.
 

DominusNovus

Matt Quinn said:
Do y'all like this? Some have said that very long-term future planning is a bad idea, so if y'all have caveats or want a totally different future, feel free to let 'em rip.
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Sounds like a good one, but, as you mentioned, planning the future could be a problem. Makes us create a timeline where we're aiming for something, which kinda feels unnatural. Still, a Viking crusade(s) is early enough that we'll almost certainly have it. After that, all we have to do is make sure that we delay discovering america (which is, in and of itself, long term planning, but oh well). We'll probably end up with the whole line up you provided though.
 

MerryPrankster

Okay. I wanted to know what the consensus of the board was on those matters. I don't want to hijack the entire TL, but I thought my stuff could be helpful.

Hmm...where is everyone else? Before the board crashed, there were a buttload of people contributing.
 

MerryPrankster

The discussions that led to the Nestorian Mongols/Tamerlane/Crusade/Russia scenario came from the need to delay the discovery of America.

Now, where will you take the Byzantines? We haven't gotten to the Arab explosion just yet. Monophysites and Athanasians are legally equal, but the Nestorians and other "heretics" aren't.
 

DominusNovus

Matt Quinn said:
The discussions that led to the Nestorian Mongols/Tamerlane/Crusade/Russia scenario came from the need to delay the discovery of America.

Now, where will you take the Byzantines? We haven't gotten to the Arab explosion just yet. Monophysites and Athanasians are legally equal, but the Nestorians and other "heretics" aren't.
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I haven't figured out what the legal status of other christians is. I'm gonna eventually build a Suez Canal (you just can't have an AH without an early Suez), to help delay America some more. But we won't worry about that for quite awhile.
 

MerryPrankster

"I haven't figured out what the legal status of other christians is. I'm gonna eventually build a Suez Canal (you just can't have an AH without an early Suez), to help delay America some more. But we won't worry about that for quite awhile."

Perhaps the early Suez Canal is built to aid military operations against the Muslims? Even without the Monophysites welcoming them with open arms, they're still going to be very dangerous.

Hmmm...covert Byzantine arms shipments via the Canal to oppressed Hindus in India for an Afghanistan-style secret war against the Caliphate?
 

cow defender

i do not find a problem with your plans for the distant future. I kind of like the idea of a raging crusade against the vikings but that is still years in advance.
what does the near near future of the tl look like to you guys? I was kind of hoping for Islam to come my way (not that i mind that its not) so that the easties will have something to rage against.
 

marl_d

the Suez canal idea is a good one, considering there is evidence that there have been canals there at verious times in history, so the Byzantines could find the evidence and decide that it would be a good stratigic/ecomonic idea


keep up the good work guys sounds good so far
 

Diamond

Banned
Matt Q: I like your plans r.e. the development of 'Russia', the Norse, etc. I had been thinking about having the Ostrogoths (or Italia, as my nation would probably be called) attempting to expand north and east, since all other avenues of expansion are pretty much closed to me.

How do you think Italic armies advancing into OTL Poland would work? Or is that even feasible - that's some pretty nasty terrain between Italy and the Baltic... Assuming its do-able, maybe the Italics can cooperate with the Norse in pounding the Slav tribes into submission? Could lead to some very interesting northeastern European demographics, though I'd be a little worried that Italic Christianity might become to widespread in the Norse-founded 'russian' states, perhaps making it harder to get a conversion to Nestorianism.
 

MerryPrankster

If the Norse homelands have been subjected to various Crusades in the name of Christ, they might not like Western Christianity very much. Thus, when the Nestorians, who've been out of the Western loop for 500 or so years, show up, they can set a better, more attractive example of Christianity (bonus points if they arrive with cures for various diseases--in Central Asia, Nestorians were often doctors).

Besides, if the Italic guys move northward into OTL Poland, the Slavic peoples, who've been subjected to Viking depredations, might very well throw themselves under Italic protection and as a sort of unifying measure, adopt the Italic sort of Christianity. There's another reason for the Norse not to adopt Christianity--the Crusaders are using it to unite the serfs against them.

If the Vikings didn't raid the Slavs much in OTL, perhaps we can tweak population pressures in the Norse homelands so that they do. Perhaps there're good times and a baby boom, but then crop failures and the like make the Vikings more desperate. Of course, the reason the Vikings went as far as they did is b/c the climate was warmer, getting the glaciers out of the way--perhaps the crop failure can come from a new disease instead of bad weather.

Who's doing the Franks?
 

DominusNovus

I'm figuring I'll have the canal built as a result of the increase trade brought forth by the spread of Islam (which will pacify some regions to an extant, making tade easier).

Anyone mind if I take the Arabs? I'm the one who'll deal with them the most, anyway... I'm thinking that after they take out Persia and start heading east, they decide to take the coastal regions of India. Just take the port cities, so that they can better control the trade, and leave the inlands to the heathens (wouldn't it be interesting to see India and Pakistan divided up, with India landlocked and completely surrounded by Pakistan?). This should help Islam expand into Southeast Asia and the various Islands (maybe even an Islamic Japan?).

Speaking of Islam and Arabs, anyone ok with us tweaking the religion a bit? Specifically, I want to get rid of the emphasis on the Arabic language, to help it spread better. Any other ideas?
 

cow defender

matt: i'm hindu lol
actually it was an inside joke btwn friends when i moved to davis, and i used it as my email addy.

dominus: an islam japan might be interesting as well as all that land locked india theory. as for you taking islam i don't give an eff as long as nobody else wants it (who isnt currently contributing)
 
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