Comparison of Power Potential between Greater France and Greater Germany

Here we have a Napoleonic-style Greater France, with Rhine Border and Belgium, and also Piedmont, standing next to a Greater Germany, complete with Bohemia but denied everything west of Rhine. PoD is certainly Napoleonic.

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Ignore everything else in the map.

Do both countries stand on equal footing in terms of industrial and geopolitical potentials ? Or does Germany still have the upper hand over France in those regards ? Also, an essentially optimal moderate Napoleonic success this scenario is(even with an early death of Napoleon most likely being the best way to achieve it), might as well look into the the domestic sociopolitical ramifications of France NOT really losing for both countries and the broad direction they will take in general, and in facing each other in particular.
 
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Well, if it's Napoleonic then I'd say France has to be in a better economic and political position. But I do believe Germany's population is larger, and it has a larger potential to strengthen itself than the French do.
 
Well for a Greater Germany to tolerate the French Left bank they would have to have lost a war, so for now I say France
 
Well, now thinking of it, how come there's a Greater Germany right next to a Napoleonic France? Wouldn't a strong France do everything it can to prevent something like that from happening? Seeing as it didn't prevent it, I'd have to say this France is not all that strong, and the reason Germany doesn't hold anything west of the Rhine is because they haven't really fought the French yet. So probably Germany *is* the powerful one.
 
Well, now thinking of it, how come there's a Greater Germany right next to a Napoleonic France? Wouldn't a strong France do everything it can to prevent something like that from happening? Seeing as it didn't prevent it, I'd have to say this France is not all that strong, and the reason Germany doesn't hold anything west of the Rhine is because they haven't really fought the French yet. So probably Germany *is* the powerful one.

Well Germany might evolved out of Westphalia so the monarch is a cousin of the French :)

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
Wouldn't the French creation of the Confederation of the Rhine basically pre-empt the creation of any federal German state, much less a greater one that would be stronger than France? I believe personally that that quite possibly was one of France's intentions, to ensure that with a disunited Germany dominated by France, no Greater German state could arise as shown here. This would probably require some French defeat in war, and then, that raises the question of why France is permitted to keep the Rhineland.
 

katchen

Banned
Two questions, related.
If the Netherlands was close enough to Germany to be part of the German Zollverein after the Napoleonic Wars,and Dutch is quite close to German, why isn't the Netherlands part of Germany if Wallonia is part of France?
Secondly, what about overseas territories? Certainly Quebec might consider itself part of Greater France and that would add to France's resources and population. But what about non-European population colonies?
 
Two questions, related.
If the Netherlands was close enough to Germany to be part of the German Zollverein after the Napoleonic Wars,and Dutch is quite close to German, why isn't the Netherlands part of Germany if Wallonia is part of France?
The Netherlands never was part of the German Zollverein, why would it be here? And the Netherlands isn't part of Germany, because the Dutch aren't German. Why would they want to become part of germany?
 
I think that Greater Germany has more industrial potential. Bohemia Moravia, Silesia and I am not sure if the Ruhr is in France or Germany on the map? Nevertheless, Greater Germany will probably still have more population. And than there is the whole federal structure which is in my opinion superior to the centralistic France.
 

RavenMM

Banned
The Netherlands never was part of the German Zollverein, why would it be here? And the Netherlands isn't part of Germany, because the Dutch aren't German. Why would they want to become part of germany?


Walloons and flemish aren't french neither, but here they are part of france. Maybe they don't want to be part of France neither ;) And a "Greater Germany" could annex the Netherlands, regarding dutch just as a german dialect with an own army... But I don't think having the rhine as the natural border for the full length beetween Greater France and Greater Germany would change much of the outcome so it's not really important.

@OP
HOw do the countries treat their minorities? Do they joyfully assimilate so that there are only french and german people in these countries or are they suppressed or something else? Could be really bad for germany with rebelling poles and czechs. the same regarding walloons, flemish and italians for france.
Under normal circumstances, I think Greater Germany has a much bigger potential than Greater France. Much more resources and people, I think.
 
Walloons and flemish aren't french neither, but here they are part of france. Maybe they don't want to be part of France neither ;) And a "Greater Germany" could annex the Netherlands, regarding dutch just as a german dialect with an own army... But I don't think having the rhine as the natural border for the full length beetween Greater France and Greater Germany would change much of the outcome so it's not really important.

@OP
HOw do the countries treat their minorities? Do they joyfully assimilate so that there are only french and german people in these countries or are they suppressed or something else? Could be really bad for germany with rebelling poles and czechs. the same regarding walloons, flemish and italians for france.
Under normal circumstances, I think Greater Germany has a much bigger potential than Greater France. Much more resources and people, I think.
Also Bohemian is German enough but Dutch is not. Dutch may be its own culture but it has very strong Germanic roots. To the point where the languages are mostly mutually intelligible.
 
The Ruhr is mostly in Germany, and with Silesia, Moravia, Bohemia, etc. it has the graeter industrial potential.
 
Germany also has a potent Fifth Column in the Rhineland in case of war, along with the full industry of Bohemia and Silesia. France should fear the Reich.
 
OTL France went through the modern demographic transition well before Germany did. That was just after Napoleon, so your POD probably doesn't change that. So Germany is going to be weaker for awhile, then catch up, then surpass.
 
Yep, ultimately, you almost doubled Germany's size while giving France maybe 15-20% more land.
 
The POD may be, that Napoleon accepts one of Metternichs peace-proposals in 1813. Franc has to give up his influence in Germany and Italy, but keeps the Rhine-border and Piemont. With France still a greater threat, german nationalism grows stronger and in the 1840/50 there is a revolution, which enforce a greater geman national state.
 
Well, let's say this is now 1870 roughly. Germany would be a new, population and industrial giant against a declining France, and I believe in such a case that the local States would side with Germany against French dominance. So, yep, Germany.
 
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