Communist Federation

[The Professor]

...rather than Soviet Union.

Basically, I had this idea where the RCW goes differently enough that instead of a Union of Soviet Socialist Republics being formed out of the defunct Russian Empire there's a federation under the auspices of a Comintern equivalent.

Perhaps a nested federation of communist federations (ie a Baltic Union, Balkan Union, Turkoman Union, Central European Union, All-Russian Union, etc) under Russian chairmanship maybe but not as SU controlled as OTL.

Is this possible?
How would it impact the rise of WW2 or equivalent?
What's the long term forecast?

 

[The Professor]

A nonstarter? Or not enough information?

 

[EnglishCanuck]

Er a little vague on what this Communist federation is. Also thats a really egalitarian view IMO. It would also really depend on who ran the show. The Bolsheviks crushed pretty much any Nationalist movement that didn't side with them so stuff like the Turkoman Union probably wouldn't fly. Not with Lenin, Stalin or Trotsky. Trotsky may have given a precious few more freedoms but not enough to de-centralize controls. If the Bolsheviks didn't run the show... well thats where things get interesting. I dont know enough about the Mensheviks to properly comment.

 

[The Professor]

Er a little vague on what this Communist federation is. Also thats a really egalitarian view IMO. It would also really depend on who ran the show. The Bolsheviks crushed pretty much any Nationalist movement that didn't side with them so stuff like the Turkoman Union probably wouldn't fly. Not with Lenin, Stalin or Trotsky. Trotsky may have given a precious few more freedoms but not enough to de-centralize controls. If the Bolsheviks didn't run the show... well thats where things get interesting. I dont know enough about the Mensheviks to properly comment.

Yes.
Basically a de facto federal model rather than a de jure one that was a de facto centralised Russian Soviet Empire.

Would Yugoslavia be a good or bad example of a communist federation?

 

[EnglishCanuck]

Considering how Yugolsavia ended I wouldnt say so.

 

[The Professor]

Any more interest? Comments etc?

 

[Shevek23]

Just to say if one is dealing with Bolsheviks, or any Marxist or parallel ideology that sees itself as being a highly scientific system, it doesn't matter so much what the formal constitution of the state system says it is on paper; whatever constitutional system such a set of revolutionaries adopts, the key thing will be that the Party rules in each subset, and the Party will be de facto centralized on one line.

Whether they'd adopted some sort of ad hoc federation or something more systematically centralized would matter down the line if the Party rule system degenerates or fails, as in Yugoslavia or the former USSR. Then borders that might have drawn casually or for rather secondary political reasons or even were completely arbitrary might suddenly have serious consequences as the system fragments and pieces go their separate ways. Also some clever federal system that might have been sitting unused gathering dust as it were (due to being bypassed by intra-Party politics instead) might at last prove its worth--or lack thereof.

 

[The Professor]

Just to say if one is dealing with Bolsheviks, or any Marxist or parallel ideology that sees itself as being a highly scientific system, it doesn't matter so much what the formal constitution of the state system says it is on paper; whatever constitutional system such a set of revolutionaries adopts, the key thing will be that the Party rules in each subset, and the Party will be de facto centralized on one line.

Whether they'd adopted some sort of ad hoc federation or something more systematically centralized would matter down the line if the Party rule system degenerates or fails, as in Yugoslavia or the former USSR. Then borders that might have drawn casually or for rather secondary political reasons or even were completely arbitrary might suddenly have serious consequences as the system fragments and pieces go their separate ways. Also some clever federal system that might have been sitting unused gathering dust as it were (due to being bypassed by intra-Party politics instead) might at last prove its worth--or lack thereof.

Would you be able to expand on this in your ever so clever way? p)

 

[The Professor]

Any more responses/comments before I give up on this?

 

[David S Poepoe]

I don't see anything particularly wrong with the idea. The reason it doesn't quite work in Russia is that it was a greatly centralized country to begin with. A good parallel example would be the current ones being applied to Afghanistan, Iraq, Egypt and probably Libya, being democracy to a country that has no history of democracy.

Also the necessity to modernize the country, in leaps and bounds, calls for a centralized bureacracy that wheel a lot of power and won't brook the interference of a regional soviet state council.