Communist Confederacy WWI Analogue - help please!

With continued help and input from Merry Prankster, my work on some stories about the Communist Confederacy continues to go swimmingly. I also have most of the TL outlined from the Civil War to 1942, when the major story takes place. The once exception to that, is the age of colonialism and the Great War analogue, which I’m hoping to make a far more global affair. So, I come to you fine folks.

First some basics about major changes to the World by the turn of the century.

The USA of this world bears a closer resemblance to the Roman Republic than the Greek Democracies it mainly emulated in OTL. With Prussian (later German) aid, the USA was quick to establish a disciplined standing army and navy, along with a period mandatory military service that I may or may not tie to voting rights (ie, you don’t serve, you don’t vote). Much the same, the US is slightly more industrialized than our world, and far more militarized. Universal Manhood Suffrage has been the law for decades, and racial relations are decades ahead of OTL – on the downside, I can see women’s rights set back by generations. The result is a nations that is more militarized, industrialized and nationalistic, yet paradoxically, freer and more equal then OTL.

The CSA on the other hand, has descended to a sort of proto-Banana Republic only sustained by French and British aid and support. They suffered a crushing defeat at the hands of Spain over Cuba that saw Kentucky secede and rejoin the Union in the 1880s, and with that defeat, died the last shred of liberty for those who don’t run a plantation or serve in the CSA military. The economy, already on shaky ground has been crippled by the rising cotton crisis thanks to the Boll Weevil. The slaves as always are on the verge of revolt, only this time they may be joined by a growing number of poor white Communists known as Rednecks, titled after the red bandanas worn by the Appalachian coal miners that started the movement. Needless to say, given my series concerning this is called ‘Communist Confederacy’ they will play a big role in both the War and the years to come.

I also expect the Western Hemisphere to have been altered a bit now that the USA doesn’t have total control over the continents like OTL. Mexico is ruled over by the Hapsburgs. South America may have seen a number of nations differently than OTL – I’m open to ideas and suggestions, since I’d like to see some fighting between both sides here.

Aside from that, the biggest change is the Second French Empire still runs France, currently ruled over by Napoleon IV. Other nations are mostly the same as OTL, though colonial borders may be greatly altered, and I’m open for suggestions for that as well, especially how Africa might have been carved up.

That said, my main concern is my planned alliances and outcomes for TTL Great War, especially concerning realism and plausibility. I’ve decided to do away with the rather cliché route of ‘USA joining the Central Powers’, having chosen an altogether different system of alliances to fight the war to end all wars: The Establishment Powers and the Antiestablishment Powers (working names, open to better ones).

The Establishment is made up of the older, established great powers and their vassals and allies, and includes Great Britain, the French Empire, Austria-Hungary, The Ottoman Empire, the CSA, Hapsburg Mexico, and maybe one of the Iberian nation and a couple of South American nations.

On the other hand, the Antiestablishment is made up of newer, rising great powers, like the USA, the German Empire, the Russian Empire, Italy, Greece, and likely a number of Latin American nations and maybe an Iberian nation. I expect Japan would jump into the war on their side in exchange for some concessions and a share of the victor’s spoils. I might have them support the Hashemites against the Ottomans too.

What sparks the war is TTLs French-German feud over Morocco around 1903/04. I’d like for this is really and truly a world war, as unlike our WWI, with three theaters, Europe, the Americas, Asia and to a lesser extent Africa.

The Americas will largely depend on the USA fighting against three enemies at once, the CSA, Hapsburg Mexico, and the British in Canada, with the latter being the most difficult of the three. The CSA falls to revolution after General Roosevelt takes Richmond and General Pershing has taken all land west of the Mississippi, and the provisional Redneck government of the CSA is quick to offer Virginia and all lands captured by the Union in exchange for peace. With two more fronts to go, as well as helping Germany and Russia in Europe, the US agrees. Mexico gets off fairly easy, ceding Baja and a scrap of Sonora for peace. Canada gets taken whole, and the status of its future is decided in the Peace Treaty made once the war is concluded.

Europe, I can see the more modernized Russia, Italy and Germany able to hold their own on the western front while making huge gains against both the Austria-Hungarians and the Ottomans, who are fighting a losing battle against the Hashemite as well. Once the USA manages to start pouring troops and supplies into Europe, I can see the war ending fairly quickly for all but Britain, who might make peace once they stand alone, likely after swapping Prime Ministers – if it’s plausible, I’d love to see Winnie get to be TTL Chamberlain.

As for peace, I see all but the British getting carved up by the victors. The Brits, with the exception of Canada, I could see getting very favorable terms in exchange for peace. Canada gets split three ways, Newfoundland and Victoria Island going to the British, Quebec and Labrador getting made into a Republic of Quebec, and the rest making up the lion’s share of the USA’s war gains.

My questions to you are the following:

Does it sound plausible so far? What about Asia? What would be some good sides for South America to have?

How might the peace treaty look as a whole? The only part I really have planned out is the separate peace between the CSSA and the USA, and the division of Canada. I’d love to get the rest fleshed out.

Perhaps most importantly, how might the post war look? Though I can see the new set of great powers largely at peace with each other, I would like some new trouble spots for my hinted at WWII. With the CSA gone communist and the post-national and post-racial bent it has given the movement, what places might see revolution in the future? The Ottoman remnant or France perhaps? Somewhere in Asia or Africa?

I hope I can get some ideas and help!
 
At this time most of AH's members are offline, have some patience..

You mentioned the CSA, would they really give up that easily? They had 40 years to prepare for another war, and there could be some really nasty guerilla movements in the occupied territories. And the Royal Navy would probably be able to shell American coastal cities without impunity.
 
At this time most of AH's members are offline, have some patience..

You mentioned the CSA, would they really give up that easily? They had 40 years to prepare for another war, and there could be some really nasty guerilla movements in the occupied territories. And the Royal Navy would probably be able to shell American coastal cities without impunity.

sorry, just anxious to get some responses :eek:

When the CSA gave up, it was almost a matter of nessesity - they were losing ground everywhere, Richmond had just been captured, and the Redneck Communist movement had just launced a revolution that had taken most of the remaining CSA - think OTL Brest-Litovsk, where the Red Russians could have kept fighting the Kaiser, but chose instead to trade land for peace and time to consolidate Communist control over the homeland.

And the Royal Navy does indeed shell American cities on the Atlantic pretty regularly - in one dramatic instance, they destroy TTL Statue of Liberty. Keep in mind, the Royal Navy is spread relatively thin across the globe as well, but it's presence is a huge reason why Britain gets a (mostly) White Peace.
 
Name of the alliance

Enstablishment: Entente Cordiale (why waste a good name and after all the core is the same of OTL) unofficially called (by the detractor) The reactionary alliance.

Antienstablishment: Quadruple Alliance (by the big four) unofficially called the revanchist pact or the upstart alliance (by the other alliance)...as they feel cheated by the others old powers and want their place on the sun.

Regarding the iberian nation division, Portugal is an historical British ally and Spain can be swayed on the Antienstablishment side by a more succesfull Amedeo I (son of Vittorio Emanuele II king of Italy) who keep the throne and after a period of neutrality but leaning on the AE officially join.
 
The CSA on the other hand, has descended to a sort of proto-Banana Republic only sustained by French and British aid and support. They suffered a crushing defeat at the hands of Spain over Cuba that saw Kentucky secede and rejoin the Union in the 1880s, and with that defeat, died the last shred of liberty for those who don’t run a plantation or serve in the CSA military. The economy, already on shaky ground has been crippled by the rising cotton crisis thanks to the Boll Weevil. The slaves as always are on the verge of revolt, only this time they may be joined by a growing number of poor white Communists known as Rednecks, titled after the red bandanas worn by the Appalachian coal miners that started the movement. Needless to say, given my series concerning this is called ‘Communist Confederacy’ they will play a big role in both the War and the years to come.

Hm, this'd depend heavily on how abusive the CSA became. Since it was draconian near the end of the war, I'd buy the poor whites launching a separate red coup, but if anything racial animosity would be worse if the CSA was independent, not better. The poorer a nation is, the more willing it is to buy a big lie and I don't see it taking too much to lay the blame on the (small) number of plantation owners and burgeoning number of black slaves. Especially once the violence starts.

Aside from that, the biggest change is the Second French Empire still runs France, currently ruled over by Napoleon IV. Other nations are mostly the same as OTL, though colonial borders may be greatly altered, and I’m open for suggestions for that as well, especially how Africa might have been carved up.

Without digging into too many books, I'd see:
* Brits still run the Niger River Basin.
* Angola, Cabinda, and Mozambique are Portuguese.
* Algeria is French.
* Germany is going to want a coaling station in W. Africa, S. Africa, and East Africa.
* I'd think a scramble for Egypt tipping off the Great Wars would be a definite possibility; plenty of advantages to controlling the Suez for the Mediterranean and anyone with East African / Near Eastern / East Asian colonies. Whomever controls that will almost inevitably control the Nile basin up to (and maybe including) Ethiopia.
* Watch geography, especially routes into central Africa. There's a reason the Belgians got such an obscene amount of territory.
* Limit settler colonies. With the right POD, I'd see more immigration to Southern Africa, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, and Eritrea/Somalia, but beyond that I don't see much. Too much jungle and not enough farmland.

That said, my main concern is my planned alliances and outcomes for TTL Great War, especially concerning realism and plausibility. I’ve decided to do away with the rather cliché route of ‘USA joining the Central Powers’, having chosen an altogether different system of alliances to fight the war to end all wars: The Establishment Powers and the Antiestablishment Powers (working names, open to better ones).

The Establishment is made up of the older, established great powers and their vassals and allies, and includes Great Britain, the French Empire, Austria-Hungary, The Ottoman Empire, the CSA, Hapsburg Mexico, and maybe one of the Iberian nation and a couple of South American nations.

The CSA won't do much but get it's ass kicked. I'd have a hard time seeing the slavocracy CSA as anything but a Pariah and the Commie CSA as a threat (to the Carribean) from the French and British perspective. Now the CSA exploiting the US after it conquers Canada and "liberates" Quebec by making a grab for Kentucky I can see.

On the other hand, the Antiestablishment is made up of newer, rising great powers, like the USA, the German Empire, the Russian Empire, Italy, Greece, and likely a number of Latin American nations and maybe an Iberian nation. I expect Japan would jump into the war on their side in exchange for some concessions and a share of the victor’s spoils. I might have them support the Hashemites against the Ottomans too.

Idk, I'd figure Russia may very well side with the Brits, unless the Germans and Russians came to an "understanding" about how Central Europe gets carved up (like the Slavs go the Russians and the Germans get the rest). That'd probably be something that needs addressing when you shape up these alliances.

What sparks the war is TTLs French-German feud over Morocco around 1903/04. I’d like for this is really and truly a world war, as unlike our WWI, with three theaters, Europe, the Americas, Asia and to a lesser extent Africa.

Hard to pull off the last 2. In Asia, India is firmly British, the Dutch presence in Indonesia is not much of a threat. Japan's invasion capability is not nearly prepared enough to threaten China seriously, although a grab against Port Arthur and/or Vladivostok is in the cards. In Africa, there's not enough people that'd matter to these alliances to make a "real" front like in WWII, unless Italy goes whole-hog settling Libya and France does the same in Algeria and they end up opposed. Add in the difficulties with land-naval operations (Britain & France allied implies a massive navy to oppose German-Russian dominance of the continent), and you're looking at not much better than OTL WWI theater. Ironically, the US Civil War experience (if the war went on long enough) would be a big help.

Even with the US navy, it's going to be difficult for the Antiestablishment to meet up. If the US drifts into Berlin's orbit, the Brits are going to go hog wild to build up in preparation for the inevitable.

The Americas will largely depend on the USA fighting against three enemies at once, the CSA, Hapsburg Mexico, and the British in Canada, with the latter being the most difficult of the three. The CSA falls to revolution after General Roosevelt takes Richmond and General Pershing has taken all land west of the Mississippi, and the provisional Redneck government of the CSA is quick to offer Virginia and all lands captured by the Union in exchange for peace. With two more fronts to go, as well as helping Germany and Russia in Europe, the US agrees. Mexico gets off fairly easy, ceding Baja and a scrap of Sonora for peace. Canada gets taken whole, and the status of its future is decided in the Peace Treaty made once the war is concluded.

From a tactical perspective, we'd probably skirmishing in the great plains and fighting in the Pacific Northwest (Fifty-Four Forty my ass! Everything up to the Artie Circle!) Once the St. Lawrence River basin falls, that's pretty much all she wrote for Canada.

Europe, I can see the more modernized Russia, Italy and Germany able to hold their own on the western front while making huge gains against both the Austria-Hungarians and the Ottomans, who are fighting a losing battle against the Hashemite as well. Once the USA manages to start pouring troops and supplies into Europe, I can see the war ending fairly quickly for all but Britain, who might make peace once they stand alone, likely after swapping Prime Ministers – if it’s plausible, I’d love to see Winnie get to be TTL Chamberlain.

More like the Ruskies and Germans would steamroller the AH while Italy retreats down the Peninsula until the Russians and Germans save them. The combined Germano-Russian force (and, assuming similar economic arrangements to OTL, no loss of internal European trade routes, more food for both) would likely clear Central Europe in 2-3 years. Harder still to predict how the Ottoman front goes.

My questions to you are the following:

Does it sound plausible so far? What about Asia? What would be some good sides for South America to have?

See my critiques above.

How might the peace treaty look as a whole? The only part I really have planned out is the separate peace between the CSSA and the USA, and the division of Canada. I’d love to get the rest fleshed out.

Assuming the Germano-Slavic horde clears Central Europe: the complete dismemberment of AH, vassalization of Greece, Constantinople liberated. In Egypt/Levant, Arab revolts probably help tie up Ottoman/British forces. Whomever controls Egypt before the war, the Brits will have it by the end. Some minor West African and East African colonies get shuffled around.

Someone turns Belgium into a crater-scarred plain; depends on who the Belgians fear more. My gut says with German-Russian alliance, they'll side with the Germano-Slavic horde and the French will try to liberate the Francophones.

Perhaps most importantly, how might the post war look? Though I can see the new set of great powers largely at peace with each other, I would like some new trouble spots for my hinted at WWII. With the CSA gone communist and the post-national and post-racial bent it has given the movement, what places might see revolution in the future? The Ottoman remnant or France perhaps? Somewhere in Asia or Africa?

I hope I can get some ideas and help!

The problem is the CSSA isn't too much of a practical threat. It lacks W. Virigina's rich coal deposits, Texas' rich oil deposits, and is dealing with a boll weevil killing its main cash source for external trade. It has agriculture and tobacco, but that's it, and that's hard to build a real existential threat with. Now I could see it touching off a post-war revolution with Mexico and forming a United Brown People's Socialist Council's of America which would help its footing, but it is still not much of a demographic or political threat even then. The US would still have more than enough of a navy to keep the two halves seperate and withouth the post-WWI black exodus (from the South), the much whiter US will probably move to crush it in a few dozen year, assuming Canada is rationally handled. Even if it isn't extinguished, it represents very little practical threat; it'll be a poor agro-despotism like before, just with a new ruling class.

I like the idea, but the CSSA will play a very minor role ITTL WWII. I'd think the revolution coming before the Great War analogue would be better; the CSSA watches what happens in the great war and commences crash industrialization and filibustering to secure resources. By the WWII analogue, it could be a reasonable threat, especially if Texas (never much in the way of a black population to begin with) is neutral, New Orleans + Arkansas is controlled, and it has a partner/sattelite in Mexico. Still, the US would likely be able to crush it, although this time it'd be better than a banana republic.

Sorry if I burst your bubble :(; it's just hard to see the CSSA being a real threat without all that coal in W Virginia to fuel its power plants, Texas oil to fuel its panzers, and that Appalachian iron to fuel its factories.
 

whitecrow

Banned
Once the USA manages to start pouring troops and supplies into Europe, I can see the war ending fairly quickly
I like how despite lacking half of OTL territory (and thus population + natural resources of said territory) AND being busy occupying large swats of North America captured during the war, USA is going to prance over to Europe and “start pouring troops” to “end the war quickly”

america_fuck_yeah1_Metric_vs_other_systems_America_f_YEA-s400x320-105676-580.jpg
 
Name of the alliance

Enstablishment: Entente Cordiale (why waste a good name and after all the core is the same of OTL) unofficially called (by the detractor) The reactionary alliance.

Antienstablishment: Quadruple Alliance (by the big four) unofficially called the revanchist pact or the upstart alliance (by the other alliance)...as they feel cheated by the others old powers and want their place on the sun.

Regarding the iberian nation division, Portugal is an historical British ally and Spain can be swayed on the Antienstablishment side by a more succesfull Amedeo I (son of Vittorio Emanuele II king of Italy) who keep the throne and after a period of neutrality but leaning on the AE officially join.

Those names work really well actually... thanks!

Also, the Spanish division would make sense, especially given Spain fought a war with the CSA.

Hm, this'd depend heavily on how abusive the CSA became. Since it was draconian near the end of the war, I'd buy the poor whites launching a separate red coup, but if anything racial animosity would be worse if the CSA was independent, not better. The poorer a nation is, the more willing it is to buy a big lie and I don't see it taking too much to lay the blame on the (small) number of plantation owners and burgeoning number of black slaves. Especially once the violence starts.

Perhaps, but way I figure it, the poor whites and the slaves may have had to ally out of nessesity. The black slaves would be the clear majority population by this time, and the white underclass may have to ally with them out of nessesity before the war, and out of the interest of survival post-revolution. Also, Albert Parsons, the man leading the rebellion, in OTL has fairly tolerent, and I'm likely having Debbs and Sinclair head south to help the Revolution, and both of them were in favor of equality of the races.

Without digging into too many books, I'd see:
* Brits still run the Niger River Basin.
* Angola, Cabinda, and Mozambique are Portuguese.
* Algeria is French.
* Germany is going to want a coaling station in W. Africa, S. Africa, and East Africa.
* I'd think a scramble for Egypt tipping off the Great Wars would be a definite possibility; plenty of advantages to controlling the Suez for the Mediterranean and anyone with East African / Near Eastern / East Asian colonies. Whomever controls that will almost inevitably control the Nile basin up to (and maybe including) Ethiopia.
* Watch geography, especially routes into central Africa. There's a reason the Belgians got such an obscene amount of territory.
* Limit settler colonies. With the right POD, I'd see more immigration to Southern Africa, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, and Eritrea/Somalia, but beyond that I don't see much. Too much jungle and not enough farmland.

That fills in a ton of blank spots on the world map I had, so thank you! Any ideas for the rest? Would the USA claim any places, pre or post war?

The CSA won't do much but get it's ass kicked. I'd have a hard time seeing the slavocracy CSA as anything but a Pariah and the Commie CSA as a threat (to the Carribean) from the French and British perspective. Now the CSA exploiting the US after it conquers Canada and "liberates" Quebec by making a grab for Kentucky I can see..

Do they ever :D One big reason I started the project was a desire to show that the CSA was the best fate for the south, as opposed to the CSA, which by the wars start, is a backward, broken proto-Tin pot dictatorship proped up by foriegn support. Aside from the Virginia front, the CSA looses massive amounts of ground to the USA, and only gets peace when the Revolution comes.

Basically, think of the USA-CSA front as TTL Eastern Front, complete with the Brest-Litovsk equivilent.

Idk, I'd figure Russia may very well side with the Brits, unless the Germans and Russians came to an "understanding" about how Central Europe gets carved up (like the Slavs go the Russians and the Germans get the rest). That'd probably be something that needs addressing when you shape up these alliances.

That actually was the plan pretty much - Germany gets GrobDuetchland and gets to puppet hungary prett much, Russia gets to great a massive Southern Slav State. At leas that's the plan...

Hard to pull off the last 2. In Asia, India is firmly British, the Dutch presence in Indonesia is not much of a threat. Japan's invasion capability is not nearly prepared enough to threaten China seriously, although a grab against Port Arthur and/or Vladivostok is in the cards. In Africa, there's not enough people that'd matter to these alliances to make a "real" front like in WWII, unless Italy goes whole-hog settling Libya and France does the same in Algeria and they end up opposed. Add in the difficulties with land-naval operations (Britain & France allied implies a massive navy to oppose German-Russian dominance of the continent), and you're looking at not much better than OTL WWI theater. Ironically, the US Civil War experience (if the war went on long enough) would be a big help.

Even with the US navy, it's going to be difficult for the Antiestablishment to meet up. If the US drifts into Berlin's orbit, the Brits are going to go hog wild to build up in preparation for the inevitable.

With Japan, I figured they'd nab Indochina and maybe some of the other European colonies in China. I thought there was some fighting in africa in OTL WWI?

Another thing that might help is coming up for a way for war to spread to South America, and let the two sides there fight it out.

As for how the US meets up with thier allies, I lumped Russia in for that reason originally - ship them across the PAcific, then through Siberia to Europe. Certainly less risky than facing the full force of the British and French Navy.

From a tactical perspective, we'd probably skirmishing in the great plains and fighting in the Pacific Northwest (Fifty-Four Forty my ass! Everything up to the Arctic Circle!) Once the St. Lawrence River basin falls, that's pretty much all she wrote for Canada.

I kinda figured - the Plains provinces might see some minor skirmishes, some Battles in British Columbia for sure. The fight over Eastern Canada though will liekly see some serious fighting, albiet one the US would in time win, though how high the butchers bill goes is anyones guess.

More like the Ruskies and Germans would steamroller the AH while Italy retreats down the Peninsula until the Russians and Germans save them. The combined Germano-Russian force (and, assuming similar economic arrangements to OTL, no loss of internal European trade routes, more food for both) would likely clear Central Europe in 2-3 years. Harder still to predict how the Ottoman front goes.

Sounds about right actaully, though I don't see the Ottomans faring much better than AH personally, especially not when you toss the Hashemites into the mix.

See my critiques above..

Thank you.

Assuming the Germano-Slavic horde clears Central Europe: the complete dismemberment of AH, vassalization of Greece, Constantinople liberated. In Egypt/Levant, Arab revolts probably help tie up Ottoman/British forces. Whomever controls Egypt before the war, the Brits will have it by the end. Some minor West African and East African colonies get shuffled around.

Someone turns Belgium into a crater-scarred plain; depends on who the Belgians fear more. My gut says with German-Russian alliance, they'll side with the Germano-Slavic horde and the French will try to liberate the Francophones.

All sounds fairly plausible - I certainly see them dismembering the French empire, though how and to what extent I am not sure. I can see the British getting some concessions too, given aside from Canada, they would liekly remain mostly unbeaten.

The problem is the CSSA isn't too much of a practical threat. It lacks W. Virigina's rich coal deposits, Texas' rich oil deposits, and is dealing with a boll weevil killing its main cash source for external trade. It has agriculture and tobacco, but that's it, and that's hard to build a real existential threat with. Now I could see it touching off a post-war revolution with Mexico and forming a United Brown People's Socialist Council's of America which would help its footing, but it is still not much of a demographic or political threat even then. The US would still have more than enough of a navy to keep the two halves seperate and withouth the post-WWI black exodus (from the South), the much whiter US will probably move to crush it in a few dozen year, assuming Canada is rationally handled. Even if it isn't extinguished, it represents very little practical threat; it'll be a poor agro-despotism like before, just with a new ruling class.

I like the idea, but the CSSA will play a very minor role ITTL WWII. I'd think the revolution coming before the Great War analogue would be better; the CSSA watches what happens in the great war and commences crash industrialization and filibustering to secure resources. By the WWII analogue, it could be a reasonable threat, especially if Texas (never much in the way of a black population to begin with) is neutral, New Orleans + Arkansas is controlled, and it has a partner/sattelite in Mexico. Still, the US would likely be able to crush it, although this time it'd be better than a banana republic.

Sorry if I burst your bubble :(; it's just hard to see the CSSA being a real threat without all that coal in W Virginia to fuel its power plants, Texas oil to fuel its panzers, and that Appalachian iron to fuel its factories.

No bubble burst at all - I had no illusions it would be some sort of global threat, aside from being the first communist nation in history perhaps, and inspiring revolutions elsewhere. It is certainly a regional power however, and has enough resources to make it something of an ulcer to the USA, though the biggest point of foriegn policy will likely consist of 'do not provoke the Yankees'.

Even in my main story, I point out that the CSSA will likely be nothing but a sideshow in the coming war - one charachter even points out the only reason the USA might invade at all is because President Quentin Roosevelt 'wants to finish his daddies work'.

Where I'm struggling with the postwar world is shapping that next war - I'd love to see some other nations go Communist, which in this world would likely bear a more post-nationalist and post-racial bent. One area I had an idea for was for the Balkans and maybe Turkey to unify under a Communist government that works at creating a new national identidy.

In essecne, I'm trying to create the new enemies for TTL WWII, ideally a form of Commentern, especially a few that are great powers. I don;t know where to put them though :eek:. Ideas?




I like how despite lacking half of OTL territory (and thus population + natural resources of said territory) AND being busy occupying large swats of North America captured during the war, USA is going to prance over to Europe and “start pouring troops” to “end the war quickly”


america_fuck_yeah1_Metric_vs_other_systems_America_f_YEA-s400x320-105676-580.jpg

One thing to keep in mind is it's not OTL USA - it's a slightly more industrialized, much more militarized USA with a standing Prussian-style army a few million strong with the draft in full force.

Also, byt the time the USA has started pouring troops into Europe, I expect the German/Russian/Italians will have been able to crush Austria Hungary, and with some Greek and Hashemite help, brought the Ottomans to heel. Where the USA would come in handy is the Western front, likely providing the big boost that would help them finally knock out the French. By no means easy, but they provide the final push. It is worth noting that at this point, the sides are so exhausted white peace is sought with the British.

Also, your picture didn't post. What was it?
 
I like how despite lacking half of OTL territory (and thus population + natural resources of said territory) AND being busy occupying large swats of North America captured during the war, USA is going to prance over to Europe and “start pouring troops” to “end the war quickly”

america_fuck_yeah1_Metric_vs_other_systems_America_f_YEA-s400x320-105676-580.jpg

I agree with this rhetoric, I can't see US citizens being to keen to send valuable soldiers over seas when they are literally surrounded by enemies on their home front, cowed or not. Also, the Americans would have to have complete command over the Atlantic otherwise the attrition rate is going to be phenomenal. Remember, they need to get men to the German Front, going through the Baltic sea isn't an option. They would have to go across Russia (If I understand the alliances correctly). The Royal Navy and the French Fleet is going to have to have been destroyed and I imagine in TTL it is going to be HUGE. What of Japan? Are they with the French and British? Because that means the Pacific is going to be treacherous too.

If I understand correctly, the Russians and Germans are allies? That's almost a checkmate scenario for continental Europe. That amount of manpower and industry is going to be devastating. If anything, I see the Europeans coming to America, not the other way around.
 
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More like the Ruskies and Germans would steamroller the AH while Italy retreats down the Peninsula until the Russians and Germans save them. The combined Germano-Russian force (and, assuming similar economic arrangements to OTL, no loss of internal European trade routes, more food for both) would likely clear Central Europe in 2-3 years. Harder still to predict how the Ottoman front goes.


Italy in this situation will be probably mantain a defensive posture in both the alpine front so to not waste precious resources and try to keep enough men of France and A-H here occupied. Her real work will be on the mediterranean fighting a uphill battle against the Entente navies (maybe with a little help from a German squadron who can be based in Sicily) and fighting the OE in North Africa and the Balkans (Albania will be surely invaded in the first moment of war) giving support to both Serbia and Greece. With a quicker and less bloody war (but still costly) is see the Alliance power basically dismantle the A-H and OE empires as OTL (but this time it will stick due to different alliance) and France will get the ITTL version of Versailles lite as the British will try to intercede.
 
I agree with this rhetoric, I can't see US citizens being to keen to send valuable soldiers over seas when they are literally surrounded by enemies on their home front, cowed or not. Also, the Americans would have to have complete command over the Atlantic otherwise the attrition rate is going to be phenomenal. Remember, they need to get men to the German Front, going through the Baltic sea isn't an option. They would have to go across Russia (If I understand the alliances correctly). The Royal Navy and the French Fleet is going to have to have been destroyed and I imagine in TTL it is going to be HUGE. What of Japan? Are they with the French and British? Because that means the Pacific is going to be treacherous too.

If I understand correctly, the Russians and Germans are allies? That's almost a checkmate scenario for continental Europe. That amount of manpower and industry is going to be devastating. If anything, I see the Europeans coming to America, not the other way around.

The Atlantic might be an issue agreed - that's part of the reason I figured they'd go across the Pacific instead, then across Russia into Europe.

Japan is initially nuetral, but joins the war on the side of the Quadtriple alliance later on.

Yes, Germany, Italy and Russia are all on the same side as the USA. I agree in the long term, they would win in Europe, but they gotta grind down Austria Hungary, the Ottomans and the French first - and them they still have the British!

What do you mean by you see the Europeans coming to the Americas, out of curiousity?

Italy in this situation will be probably mantain a defensive posture in both the alpine front so to not waste precious resources and try to keep enough men of France and A-H here occupied. Her real work will be on the mediterranean fighting a uphill battle against the Entente navies (maybe with a little help from a German squadron who can be based in Sicily) and fighting the OE in North Africa and the Balkans (Albania will be surely invaded in the first moment of war) giving support to both Serbia and Greece. With a quicker and less bloody war (but still costly) is see the Alliance power basically dismantle the A-H and OE empires as OTL (but this time it will stick due to different alliance) and France will get the ITTL version of Versailles lite as the British will try to intercede.

I can certainly see the Italians playing defense, at least at first. Also, brilliant idea about the QE Mediteranean squadran!

You really think the British would try to defend the French at the peace table though?
 
I can certainly see the Italians playing defense, at least at first. Also, brilliant idea about the QE Mediteranean squadran!

Thanks.

You really think the British would try to defend the French at the peace table though?

For realpolitick and balance of power, with A-h and the OE basically dismantled, France remains one of the few continental nation who can be a viable ally so they, at least try to limit the damage.
 
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