Communism without the USSR

Command Economies are inherently totalitarian, and yes, corporations internally operate in the same manner as command economies. The problems Hayek identified with Command Economies in "The Use of Knowledge in Society" also explains why worker owned co-ops are generally more efficient than top down companies.

Of course, Hayek was an apologist for Capitalism, but even stopped clocks are right twice a day.
 
Brazil may work out better... if it avoids totalitarianism. If it doesn't, it will end up becoming a mess similar to the Soviet Union, because totalitarianism will trash its economics, regardless of what they are.

Historically, Brazil and totalitarianism have never mixed. The only time close to it were the US-backed military dictatorship. So the no totalitarianism bit is very possible.

However, as this is Brazil we're talking about, you almost have to have a Janio Quadros analogue, either him himself or someone who has that type of personality. To put it politely, he was definitely loco, but his loco was very funny. Many Brazilians have heard and have told stories about Senhor Quadros that are so comic and so funny you definitely can't make them up, as most of them are true! :D Like the one time when he was banned from leaving Brazil (since Congress hated him) when he was trying to make a peace deal with Argentina, so eventually they held the meeting on the Uruguay River between Brazil and Argentina, with guards all along the border to make sure he didn't leave the country! :p Having a Janio Quadros-like figure is almost needed for any Brazil-oriented TL.
 
So what do we think? A later Communist/Syndicalist/other Socialist revolution in Russia if the Whites had won? Or Russia going the other way and becoming the Fascist state of European 20th century history? Something else happening?

Well, let me put it this way - if France waited until the 20th century for the
*French Revolution to occur (i.e. the ancien régime somehow managed to live longer than OTL), that's what's going to happen, only with a lot more bloodshed than the OTL French Revolution and making it similar to the OTL Spanish Civil War. That's what I'd see happen to Russia - like the French Revolution + Spanish Civil War but on steroids, and hence would be longer and with a lot more bloodshed than OTL. With somewhat alternating periods of White rule and Red rule, of which the Whites would make the place more scarier than at any time under the Tsar, and which the Reds would be like TTL's parallel to the Jacobins. That's because things were that bad. Whoever wins is anyone's guess; my hope is that eventually cooler heads prevail and Russia becomes the Russian Federation sooner than OTL if the moderates ultimately gain control. But, yeah at this point anything is open - apart from my preferred moderate option, it could also swing White and become fascist (and of which this Russian government would be heavily despised - "meet the new boss, same as the old boss") or swing Red but one of the many varieties of Red, such as the Mensheviks. If the Whites held on for longer, then definitely another Revolution, split between Reds and non-Reds; which way it goes is anyone's guess.

Yes and that thought is one of the reasons why I started this thread. If a democratic country fell first then maybe democratic communist countries could have become the norm maybe?

Probably.
 
Greece? That is the best you can do? Greece is so poor that anything cheap will do.

That was the first example that came to mind for me, because that was the first time I had seen Ladas before - which puzzled me, as at first I thought that they were a USSR-only thing. Seeing them in Greece forced me to rethink everything. But they are indeed found in a lot of countries; it should also be mentioned that Ladas were also exported to Western Europe as like a bargain alternative to the other, more expensive (in comparison) local cars on sale - a "Russian Volkswagen", if you catch my drift, and for a while they were reasonably popular until the Japanese cars came.
 

HeWhoIsMe

Banned
Never mind that the peasantry, as an exploited underclass, can be just as revolutionary as the proletariat.

Actually you have to make a distinction here.

Small time peasants that either OWNED or PAID RENT for their own little piece of land were considered reactionaries by Marx...exactly because their interests were tied to their personal possessions.
 

Wolfpaw

Banned
Actually you have to make a distinction here.

Small time peasants that either OWNED or PAID RENT for their own little piece of land were considered reactionaries by Marx...exactly because their interests were tied to their personal possessions.
Well, Marx understood Jack and Shit about the peasantry, respectively.
 

HeWhoIsMe

Banned
Well, Marx understood Jack and Shit about the peasantry, respectively.

Huh...how come?

I'll agree that since he wasn't a peasant himself, and neither were any of his close associates, he had a purely theoretical grasp on matters of the peasantry but having read what he actually wrote on them I don't think he got it all that wrong...not WHEN he wrote it anyway...
 
Well, Marx understood Jack and Shit about the peasantry, respectively.

There you have why Communism didn't work out in China and Russia.

With that in mind, how close was the UK to Syndicalism? That country is... well, to be frank, PERFECT, for Communism, almost the perfect anti-Russia in that respect. The only place better would be the US, and that's only because that would combine the best parts of Russia and the UK into one package.
 
I think there wouldn't be an ideology called 'Communism' in a such case. It was actually Russian Bolsheviks who started to use 'Communism' as a name to their ideology in order to make a distinction to other socialists.

Whatever gave you that idea? This is in no way true.
 
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In regards to whether communism in the ussr collapsed as a result of inherent failings or not, Its good to have a view other than the usual "ARRRGHHH COMMIES ARE EVIL" diatribe we are often fed by the education system and media in the west.

I personaly tend to dig around for info from many sources so as to avoid being ignorant and try to filter out bias etc to develop my own opinion.

we already have the official western view on communism but views from the average soviet populaces perspective are hard to find.

anyway after a bit of digging i found a website called www.soviet-empire.com that has someone with the screen name soviet78, Hes written a few pieces regarding life in the ussr from his experience and he did a really enlightening essay regarding the collapse of the ussr from a soviet perspective.

hers a link to the essay and some other stuff.

http://www.soviet-empire.com/ussr/viewtopic.php?f=125&t=52150

check it out its interesting.
 
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