Communism in Japan - Conditions and Possibilities

Sumeragi

Banned
No, that's in Laos. Sihanouk did support the Khmer Rouge, which was instrumental to their support. Bastard never should've been restored :mad:
Never mind he's always been chubby chubby with DPRK. But anyway.....


The conservatives of Japan were always afraid that Prince Chichibu would become the Tenno due to his liberalism. That's partly why they called him the Red Prince, to portray him as a threat to the establishment (and also deride the patriotic young officers as socialists).
 
So basically, we can have Japan go through the turmoil I explained earlier, and then use the Red Prince (I'm liking this name) to support socialism and then use his influence with the military to support a civil revolution. Is that enough to defeat the financial elite? It seems that the latter would be doing all they can to get rid of the Red Prince in this case. Perhaps he would get vocal about his positions, be interpreted by his enemies to be the centerpiece of the revolutionary movement, be assassinated, and then turned into a martyr?

It seems like I need to know more about the general situation regarding Japan's ruling structure, in addition to the formation of indigenous Marxism. If we want to create a Japanese Lenin, is it imperative that he is of the royal family or is it possible for him to simply be some outspoken scholar or the rebellious son of a wealthy family?

EDIT: On further consideration, it seems that Prince Chichibu might be a little bit late if the revolution is to happen in the late 1920s. Are there any individuals who could take his place?
 
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Sumeragi

Banned
So basically, we can have Japan go through the turmoil I explained earlier, and then use the Red Prince (I'm liking this name) to support socialism and then use his influence with the military to support a civil revolution. Is that enough to defeat the financial elite? It seems that the latter would be doing all they can to get rid of the Red Prince in this case. Perhaps he would get vocal about his positions, be interpreted by his enemies to be the centerpiece of the revolutionary movement, be assassinated, and then turned into a martyr?
I can see that happening, although the assassination would need to come from a reactionary person rather than the elites themselves. They were too conservative to dear directly touch a member of the Imperial family.

It seems like I need to know more about the general situation regarding Japan's ruling structure, in addition to the formation of indigenous Marxism. If we want to create a Japanese Lenin, is it imperative that he is of the royal family or is it possible for him to simply be some outspoken scholar or the rebellious son of a wealthy family?
I'll look into it, but I admit it will be a bit tough.

EDIT: On further consideration, it seems that Prince Chichibu might be a little bit late if the revolution is to happen in the late 1920s. Are there any individuals who could take his place?
To be frank, I personally think that we would need a Great Depression as the straw that broke the horse's back, making it be 1930~1931. That's the time Prince Chichibu graduated from Army War College, giving him the connections within the IJA. So perhaps push back the death of the Taisho Tenno at the same time?
 
I can see that happening, although the assassination would need to come from a reactionary person rather than the elites themselves. They were too conservative to dear directly touch a member of the Imperial family.
Good to know. Seems likely.
I'll look into it, but I admit it will be a bit tough.
How about this? The Red Prince doesn't turn out to be much of a natural leader, and so defers much of the power to a supporting statesman, who is of course a Communist. In any case, it'd be cool if you could find some way of making it work. The main reason I don't want a royal to head the movement as anything other than a figurehead is because I unfortunately plan to do away with the Tenno-sei.

To be frank, I personally think that we would need a Great Depression as the straw that broke the horse's back, making it be 1930~1931. That's the time Prince Chichibu graduated from Army War College, giving him the connections within the IJA. So perhaps push back the death of the Taisho Tenno at the same time?
Perhaps, but also consider that the Great Depression will happen at a different time (I'm thinking a few years earlier) than in OTL. But disregarding this, your idea may actually be better, with my only concern being that the larger the time-gap between the Russian and Japanese revolutions, the more pressure the Japanese Marxists would feel to listen to the Russians, whose ideas on how the Japanese should carry out their revolution are IMO bound to be ill-informed and disruptive.

Also, how much could a second military operation (one that fails) against the Russians around WW1 destabilize the Japanese political situation? Would the lack of being able to control Korea and influence Manchuria affect the authority of the "financial elite"?
 
Might it also potentially radicalize IJA troops?

Incidentally, would a Central-Powers Japan be blockaded by Britain, and, if so, would it have issues with food production and distribution?
 
Hm, I kind of assumed that other nations would consider Japan's beef with Russia to be their own business, but Britain also beating up on them could be of even further benefit to the Communists in convincing their countrymen that the system must change. the UK's intervention could also help make sure that Japan loses the second conflict, as honestly I don't see the Russian military pulling off the same war twice nor the Japanese being stupid enough to make the same mistakes, whatever they may be.

EDIT: And yes, the more radicalized the military gets, the better. Military men don't care about the exact details of an ideology as much as just getting stuff done (or blown up). A Japanese revolution may not be especially bloody but it needs force behind that, what it in OTL could not achieve.
 

Sumeragi

Banned
How about this? The Red Prince doesn't turn out to be much of a natural leader, and so defers much of the power to a supporting statesman, who is of course a Communist. In any case, it'd be cool if you could find some way of making it work. The main reason I don't want a royal to head the movement as anything other than a figurehead is because I unfortunately plan to do away with the Tenno-sei.
Thought of something. Sending you a PM.

Also, how much could a second military operation (one that fails) against the Russians around WW1 destabilize the Japanese political situation? Would the lack of being able to control Korea and influence Manchuria affect the authority of the "financial elite"?
Assuming we get a more expensive version of the Siberian Intervention, it is likely that the expenditures might break the back of the financial circles, while at the same time radicalizing the troops towards one side.
 
Hm, I kind of assumed that other nations would consider Japan's beef with Russia to be their own business, but Britain also beating up on them could be of even further benefit to the Communists in convincing their countrymen that the system must change. the UK's intervention could also help make sure that Japan loses the second conflict, as honestly I don't see the Russian military pulling off the same war twice nor the Japanese being stupid enough to make the same mistakes, whatever they may be.

I imagined that if Japan were going back for a second round against Russia, it would be during the Great War (which I assumed would break out on similar lines, with similar alliances); for that matter, I'm not sure that Britain keeps an alliance with a Japan that lost the first Russo-Japanese War.
 

Sumeragi

Banned
Well, the thing is, Japan doesn't have to lose the war. It could be more of a grinding stalemate that pretty much bankrupts both sides and leads to a settlement along the lines of Japanese Korea and Russian Manchuria (both spheres of influence, obviously). This would mean that Japan had served the purpose of holding back the Russians, which should be enough to keep the alliance. Also, the fact that the South Manchuria Railway Company would not be established would be a huge hit on the financial elite in expanding their capital to the continent.
 
I imagined that if Japan were going back for a second round against Russia, it would be during the Great War (which I assumed would break out on similar lines, with similar alliances); for that matter, I'm not sure that Britain keeps an alliance with a Japan that lost the first Russo-Japanese War.

It'll go back for a round with Russia during or slightly before the Great War, but I didn't plan having it be part of the Central Powers.

Well, the thing is, Japan doesn't have to lose the war. It could be more of a grinding stalemate that pretty much bankrupts both sides and leads to a settlement along the lines of Japanese Korea and Russian Manchuria (both spheres of influence, obviously). This would mean that Japan had served the purpose of holding back the Russians, which should be enough to keep the alliance. Also, the fact that the South Manchuria Railway Company would not be established would be a huge hit on the financial elite in expanding their capital to the continent.
This is actually what I was thinking of, though I also toyed about with the possibility of a neutral Korea (but decided against it for other reasons). One good reason for Russia not to outright "win" the war would be to make sure the Russian people still get uppity about their crappy conditions, thus allowing the Bolsheviks to still seize power.
 
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