Commies on the Moon!

1) How can we have a Soviet cosmonaut as the first man on the moon?

2) What effects does this have on the space race, and the Cold War?

3) Will people still think the moon landing is a conspiracy? :rolleyes:
 

Thande

Donor
1) Difficult, needs quite an early POD (like, 1950s)...the Soviet Moonshot's main problem was that its N1 booster rocket did not work, at all. Everything else worked and indeed was tested in orbit, but the N1 design was fundamentally flawed. Basically it's all down to conflict of personalities between Korolev and the guy whose name I can't spell...there's a good series of articles on this at Encyclopedia Astronautica.com. If you don't want an early POD, you might be able to assemble the moonship using multiple Proton launches instead of the N1, but this would probably require a disaster setting back the American programme. Perhaps the Apollo 1 fire doesn't happen and so the problems aren't worked out until an actual proper manned launch, thus delaying the actual moonshot...

2) The Soviets had got every other first in space up to now. In OTL they were still having N1 problems so didn't try and match the Americans, instead covering up all evidence they had ever been working on a manned moonshot and instead claiming the Americans were doing a propaganda coup (while saying their robotic Lunokhod landers were just as good as the manned landings and cost less money). In TTL the Americans do have a working launcher so they may match the Soviets to save face. Otherwise, the Americans might well focus on building a big space station in Earth orbit in order to get that as a 'first'.

3) Yes, because there are stupid people in every timeline.
 
1) How can we have a Soviet cosmonaut as the first man on the moon?

2) What effects does this have on the space race, and the Cold War?

3) Will people still think the moon landing is a conspiracy? :rolleyes:

Interestingly enough, I just thought about that this morning when briefly watching a movie about the landing on the moon (I think it might've been Apollo 13, but I didn't see the title - just the start of it).

Maybe the Soviets would have claimed the Moon for Russia, and turned space exploration a bit more political.
 
Basically it's all down to conflict of personalities between Korolev and the guy whose name I can't spell...

thats Valentin Glushko (in 1938 he denounced Korolev, who was sentenced to imprisonment for ten years.)
Glushko was major Rocket engine desiger in USSR and Korolev had to work with him.

other major player in Sovjet Moon Program (oh boy wat a soap opera!)

Vladimir Chelomei
Chief Constructor of the OKB-52, and friend of Khruschev's family
Rival of Korolev, but lost support of politburo after Khruschev fall,

Vasily Mishin
became head of Korolyov’s OKB-1 design bureau after Korolev's death in 1966.
but he was a intrigue alcoholic ,like play Glushko against Korolev in question on engine on N-1 rocket.
and inexperienced Kuznetsov get order to build N-1 rocket engine NK-15.
Mishin way of problem resolution, to get drunk until koma

Sovjet to Moon the Easy Way
Khruschev stay in power and Leonid Brezhnev is cick out politburo
Vladimir Chelomei build UR-500 (Proton) Rocket for manned moon fly by with LK-1
(OTL that became later Soyuz 7K-L1 program wat Mishin badly screw up)
instead the N-1 Chelomei proposed the UR-700 rocket build from UR-500 Parts
http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/ur700.htm
http://www.astronautix.com/craft/lk700.htm
that would be head to head race between Apollo 11 and LK-700

Sovjet to Moon the Hard Way
Korolev N-1 is build
we have get rid of Mishin, best way at test launch Soyuz. 7K-OK nr°1
(OTL the R-7 Rocket explode and almost kill Mishin)
and Dmitri Ilich Kozlov succeeds Mishin, Kozlov get bugs out of Soyuz and N-1
but not on time for Apollo 8 Lunar fly by or Apollo 11 landing
so we need a delay or chanceled the Apollo Program !
like Apollo 8 mission with Oxygen tank explosion (like in Apollo 13)
and Nixon chanceled the Program "six Dead Astronauts are enough !"
that give the Sovjet Program time to land on moon in 1973
 
If N1 rocket is the same with Saturn 5. I think Commies could reach in Moon by 1968. If Korolyov doesn't die, I think Commies can defeat US in Moon race and US would shift its attention to space station.
 

Thande

Donor
Maybe the Soviets would have claimed the Moon for Russia, and turned space exploration a bit more political.

Nah, I don't think so. The USSR was very internationalist, at least in theory, when it came to space. Notably, they were putting foreign cosmonauts on their missions (and not just those from Communist countries) long before the US did, and got a propaganda victory because of it.

Michel Van, thanks for the links.
 
If N1 rocket is the same with Saturn 5. I think Commies could reach in Moon by 1968. If Korolyov doesn't die, I think Commies can defeat US in Moon race and US would shift its attention to space station.

i wish that was true, but truth is another thing:
Korolyov was dying from cancer, even without the deady operation he hab some months to life.
The N-1 design was not 100% ready at Korolyov death.
major problem N-1 can only bring 75 tons in orbit, they need 95 tons for lunar flight.

and so Vasily Mishin start to redesign the N-1
put in First stage 24 engine NK-15. to 30 ! increase the propellant mass by supercooling the propellants prior to loading!
something were the Rocket was NOT build for
the Liquid oxygen feedline normaly -183 deg C at were now on -191 degrees centigrade.

due Vibration of 30 engine durnig launch some of LOX feedline broke and Liquid oxygen flows over engine and BOOM
the NK-15 engine. was so full of Problems
the oxidizer pump not build for -191 deg C and fails in some engine
also were slag fragment in Engine and feedline, do bad Quality control

had they choose twin launch option ( 2x N-1 with rendevous in orbit )
they had not need to redesign the N-1 and they had 150 tons, instead 95 tons in orbit
this idea was from Dmitri Ilich Kozlov

more on N-1 http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/n1.htm
 
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Thande;1808043]Nah, I don't think so. The USSR was very internationalist,
at least in theory, when it came to space.

Don't count on the Soviet's being Internatioalist if they think they have upper hand in space.

The various treaties that "controlled" (Killed...) even limited economic deveolpment in space came about later when the Soviet's concluded they could not keep with the US in space (little did they know we'd voluntary give it up...).

**BTW same thing applies to the various Ocean and Antartica treaties.

So if N1 works (which is almost ASB, without major PODs starting at least in 1961...and dealing with people, ddecisons on infrastructure, systems, real goals, etc...) they might lay claims, at least to "exploitation rights." Even argue for looser definition of the treaties banning nuclear "devices" in space, with the sorry state of Soviet fuel cell and RTG tech, they're going to need some other power source if they do "big" things.
 
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