Comic Book Golden Age POD's

Thanks for the encouragement. Now, for the answers to those important questions. :)

1:Simon and Kirby would probably go to national for two reasons 1: For better pay and 2: to Annoy Victor S. Fox, the Shyster who ran the comic company below National, Fox Features.

2:No, Batman would probably be the same as he was IOTL, only the reasons behind his creation have changed. Instead of him existing to bank in on Superman's success, he would be created to Cash in on it.

3:I think Captain Marvel still goes to Fawcett In this hypothetical timeline. Though whether or not there would be a lawsuit is up to interpretation, as explained in what I'm about to say next. You see, there is literally no way that Supes would develop into the same character that he is today under Timely and Marvel ITTL, as he did under National in ours. Many of the powers, abilities and rogues that he gained throughout his existence, all happened because he went to National and many happened either because of Editorial meddling or because of repeated goofs. F.E., his power of flight? Invented by accident. Originally, he was limited to super leaping and his limit there was 1/8th of a mile. Some inexperienced writer at National mistook it for flight one issue, very early on into his run, and the rest is history. Lex Luthor as Superman's balding arch-foe? Accident again. See, his original nemesis was The Ultra-Humanite. An elderly, bald mad scientist who was an intelligent as Superman was strong, who, when his original body was destroyed, stole the body of a young Hollywood actress named Delores Winters. Luthor was originally a European guy of dubious Origin with red hair and a Burgundy robe, (later changed to a Purple Jumpsuit) until some bozo on National's payroll was asked to bring Luthor back in a later story, saw an image of The Ultra-Humanite while doing research and gave Lex the appearance he has today. Under Timely, Superman would be significantly depowered (with Superhuman senses most likely added on as well as enhanced breath), Live and operate out of NYC from a mountainside ''Secret Citidel'', work at the Daily Star for George Taylor and his worst foe would be Ultra with a Zemo-Esc Luthor becoming the secondary Foe. Other early enemies would include Mr. Mxyztplk, Metallo, Prankster, Toyman, The Puzzler, The Archer and Funnyface. Though only a few of them may survive into the modern day.

Carrying on from that, Early Superman, who earned himself the nickname ''Champion of the Oppressed'', would actually fit in spectacularly into Marvel's Universe of misunderstood/flawed heroes like. a. fucking. glove. The Superman in the early days was NOTHING like how he is now. Tougher, more brutish, aggressive, no-nonsense, willing to threaten and forceful. A vigilante who routinely went against authority to achieve his goals and was as left-wing as they come. In many ways, a hard-socialist/progressive who championed Social-Justice as well as the regular kind, regularly taking on Wife-Beaters, Weapons Manufacturers, Traffic Law Violators, Slum-Lords, Extorters, Crooked Cops, Wardens, Tycoons and Politicians and who played into the ideals of guys like Huey Long, as many of Steve Ditko's characters played into the ideals of Ayn Rand. More like a Tough but Well-Meaning Bully for Justice with a Big Heart rather than a Blue Boy-Scout. No doubt he'll soon end up getting softened up just like Namor was after his early days and seen as a genuine hero from that point on, but not sanitized to the extent that he is today. Basically, The future Marvel Universe will be safe from being butterflied. Though, whether or not DC End up making Steve Rogers and Bucky Barnes the same Demi-God level of power as Supes IOTL (Maybe as ''Delayed Side-Effects'' of the Super-Soldier Serum.) or if Supes will end up having to be frozen like Cap was is anyone's guess.

Another thing I should mention is that The Spectre also becomes part of Marvel (his name becoming the basis for a certain android) as do Star-Spangled Kid, Stripsey, The Original Robotman, Funnyman, The Legion of Superheroes and Mr Muscles Meanwhile, DC gets The Young Allies, The Golden Age Vision, Blue Bolt, Hurricane, Comet Pierce, Marvel Boy and Red Raven.

4: On the contrary. I feel like the smaller competitors would still be around. They'd just be taking cues more from Captain America. (Or maybe some still from Superman. It's Possible.) In fact, all the Patriotic heroes that were inspired by cap and all the heroes inspired by Supes around this time might end up getting their gimmicks switched.

5: No doubt. Aside from the canonical future of the MU with the emergence of the Legion, Golden Age Vision in the JSA, the new and various stories that would and wouldn't happen, One of the BIGGEST changes would be that Siegel and Shuster become a huge part of the Marvel Bull Pen with Joe Shuster would most likely end up developing the MU with Stan Lee rather than Jack Kirby, which would lead to a ton of design changes, not to mention the way people perceive Marvel's Art Style. to put things into perspective, here's what Joe Shuster's art looked like in the 50s.

2860b2b85a2d1b14494b2a40e814c689.jpg

shuster_funnyman4.jpg


As a side effect of Jack Kirby being rooted in dc, throughout the 50s and 60s, most of Dv's heroes would look like this.

De7ZDV5X0AAGxR_.jpg

52y9lt22svc21.jpg

Another thing I forgot to mention is that Supes' costume wouldn't change much from 1939 onward. Probably would still look like, logo and all, this until Marvel redesigns it. Maybe have it so that the yellow parts of the costume are actually Gold?

Superman-Chronicles-1938-1939-DC-Comics.jpg
 
1. National Periodical Publications lets Jack Kirby and Joe Simon's character Captain America debut in his own book, rather than test the waters in More Fun, Action, or Adventure Comics, which causes George Papp to shop Green Arrow over to Timely, Fox, Nedor, or Lev Gleeson.

2. Martin Goodman comes to terms with William Marston Moulton's demand that he retain ownership of Wonder Woman, and she debuts in Marvel Mystery Comics #9.

3. Twentieth Century Fox buys Fox Comics.

4. Either the All-Winners Squadron debuts in 1942, three years early, or there was an actual Golden Age Invaders team.

5. National Periodical Publications keeps its promise to Siegel and Schuster, in writing, meaning they have no reason to create Superboy.

6. Green Arrow got his own book, and/or completely took over More Fun the same way Batman took over Detective Comics.
 
Last edited:
Thanks for the encouragement. Now, for the answers to those important questions. :)
:cool:
1:Simon and Kirby would probably go to national for two reasons 1: For better pay and 2: to Annoy Victor S. Fox, the Shyster who ran the comic company below National, Fox Features.
Makes sense. Them quitting might kill Fox sooner than OTL (which wouldn't be a bad thing, IMO;) ).
2:No, Batman would probably be the same as he was IOTL, only the reasons behind his creation have changed. Instead of him existing to bank in on Superman's success, he would be created to Cash in on it.
Works for me.

Without Supes at National, & given the success of CM, does that mean an earlier Robin? Or even more kid sidekicks?:eek::eek::rolleyes::angry:
3:I think Captain Marvel still goes to Fawcett In this hypothetical timeline. Though whether or not there would be a lawsuit is up to interpretation, as explained in what I'm about to say next. You see, there is literally no way that Supes would develop into the same character that he is today under Timely and Marvel ITTL, as he did under National in ours. Many of the powers, abilities and rogues that he gained throughout his existence, all happened because he went to National and many happened either because of Editorial meddling or because of repeated goofs.
Some of it, but not all of it. Some was a product of the film serials, where the writers (producers) wanted more visually-interesting powers, like heat vision. IIRC, that was where flying came from (tho I've heard the mistaken artist story, too).

I'd guess there'd be some GA power creep, & with the start of the Silver Age, there might be a new writer/artist team who reboots him to GA levels.
Lex Luthor as Superman's balding arch-foe? Accident again. See, his original nemesis was The Ultra-Humanite. An elderly, bald mad scientist who was an intelligent as Superman was strong, who, when his original body was destroyed, stole the body of a young Hollywood actress named Delores Winters. Luthor was originally a European guy of dubious Origin with red hair and a Burgundy robe, (later changed to a Purple Jumpsuit) until some bozo on National's payroll was asked to bring Luthor back in a later story, saw an image of The Ultra-Humanite while doing research and gave Lex the appearance he has today.
That I didn't know.
Under Timely, Superman would be significantly depowered (with Superhuman senses most likely added on as well as enhanced breath), Live and operate out of NYC from a mountainside ''Secret Citidel'', work at the Daily Star for George Taylor and his worst foe would be Ultra with a Zemo-Esc Luthor becoming the secondary Foe. Other early enemies would include Mr. Mxyztplk, Metallo, Prankster, Toyman, The Puzzler, The Archer and Funnyface. Though only a few of them may survive into the modern day.
Given Jerry & Joe are in a different "bullpen", do you think those characters would actually happen at all? IMO, the names are certain to differ (& be better, IMO), even if many of the characteristics are the same.
Carrying on from that, Early Superman, who earned himself the nickname ''Champion of the Oppressed'', would actually fit in spectacularly into Marvel's Universe of misunderstood/flawed heroes like. a. fucking. glove.
Which makes him even more important at *Timely/*Marvel... It suggests a JSA/Avengers/X-Men "headline team": Doom Patrol with better writing?:cool:
The Superman in the early days was NOTHING like how he is now. Tougher, more brutish, aggressive, no-nonsense, willing to threaten and forceful. A vigilante who routinely went against authority to achieve his goals and was as left-wing as they come. In many ways, a hard-socialist/progressive who championed Social-Justice as well as the regular kind, regularly taking on Wife-Beaters, Weapons Manufacturers, Traffic Law Violators, Slum-Lords, Extorters, Crooked Cops, Wardens, Tycoons and Politicians and who played into the ideals of guys like Huey Long, as many of Steve Ditko's characters played into the ideals of Ayn Rand. More like a Tough but Well-Meaning Bully for Justice with a Big Heart rather than a Blue Boy-Scout. No doubt he'll soon end up getting softened up just like Namor was after his early days and seen as a genuine hero from that point on, but not sanitized to the extent that he is today.
I did not know that. I agree, his "tough" side won't survive the complaints from parents, but given the Depression, he may end up moving more left than he was. In the war (with Soviet allies), I could see him staying there, but in the '50s, he's almost compelled to be more "centrist". If his stories get bigger (less Luke Cage or Green Arrow, more Avengers), there might be room for a character not unlike the early "Knight Rider" stories: corporate criminals, industrial polluters, organized crime.

Thinking of GA, what are the odds of Supes' different direction influencing the Panther to be more like the Miller DD? Or GA to be nearer Grell's Longbow Hunters?
making Steve Rogers and Bucky Barnes the same Demi-God level of power as Supes IOTL (Maybe as ''Delayed Side-Effects'' of the Super-Soldier Serum.) or if Supes will end up having to be frozen like Cap was is anyone's guess.
True. My guess is, Supes would be "depowered", maybe even below the OTL Hulk level (AIUI) he started at, putting him & Cap nearer equal. It might depend on whether they're both at *Timely.

I see Supes leading *The Avengers--but I did like the idea of JSA being for "second-string" characters, so having Supes aboard would overshadow them. (Plus, with even Hulk-level power, why does he need them? Cf Thor...)
Another thing I should mention is that The Spectre also becomes part of Marvel (his name becoming the basis for a certain android) as do Star-Spangled Kid, Stripsey, The Original Robotman, Funnyman, The Legion of Superheroes and Mr Muscles Meanwhile, DC gets The Young Allies, The Golden Age Vision, Blue Bolt, Hurricane, Comet Pierce, Marvel Boy and Red Raven.
I'm not familiar enough with GA characters to say. All created by either Kirby, Ditko, or Siegel & Shuster?

It appears the OTL origin for Vision (rebuilding the Human Torch) has to go (whatever name he gets;) ).

As for LSH & the others, how much of that is a product of the National/DC editorial staff, & how much a direct creation of the writer/artist team(s) involved? IMO, moving any of them from DC to *Marvel means the characters they create can't be the same. Expys, maybe...& if that's what you have in mind, I don't disagree entirely--but IMO, they could be extremely different even then: what does an LSH look like, when DP or X-Men is their model?:eek: And when the "no funny-looking characters" ( :rolleyes: ) rule doesn't apply?
4: On the contrary. I feel like the smaller competitors would still be around. They'd just be taking cues more from Captain America. (Or maybe some still from Superman. It's Possible.)
My thinking is, with two really big competitors right from the off, you attract much more of the talent that OTL couldn't get work at National. You may be right, on reflection; that might mean less dominance by one company...but I'd want to see your reasoning.
5: No doubt. Aside from the canonical future of the MU with the emergence of the Legion, Golden Age Vision in the JSA, the new and various stories that would and wouldn't happen, One of the BIGGEST changes would be that Siegel and Shuster become a huge part of the Marvel Bull Pen with Joe Shuster would most likely end up developing the MU with Stan Lee rather than Jack Kirby, which would lead to a ton of design changes, not to mention the way people perceive Marvel's Art Style.
Stylistically different, for sure, but also in their editorial approach.

In fact, there seems a pretty good chance the "Marvel Style" of "bullpen creation" doesn't happen; would Stan still get to be so influential? That alone is a big deal.

There's also the approach to storytelling. Does *Timely do continuing stories, per OTL Marvel, or episodic, per OTL DC? Do the books still "interlock"?

Do the multiple "alternate Earths" still happen?:rolleyes:

Do the "imaginary stories" ( :mad: ) happen? (How much of that was editors unwilling to let the character grow? And how much was a lack of grasp of the changing audience?)
1. National Periodical Publications lets Jack Kirby and Joe Simon's character Captain America debut in his own book, rather than test the waters in More Fun, Action, or Adventure Comics, which causes George Papp to shop Green Arrow over to Timely, Fox, Nedor, or Lev Gleeson.
That could be really interesting: GA as *Daredevil?:cool: (Even more if he goes elsewhere: GA in Watchmen?:cool: {Yes, I know, butterflies mean Alan probably ends up a standup comic.:eek::openedeyewink: })
1. National Periodical Publications keeps its promise to Siegel and Schuster, in writing, meaning they have no reason to create Superboy.
He might end up created anyhow, depending on which of Supes' origin stories stays in play. If we take the current "arrived as a child", it could be justified--& there would be money in it, for *National & for Siegel & Shuster (deriving from their creation--if not expressly created by them TTL, & he might be).

That does undermine the OTL origin in Action, which (IIRC) says Clark started as an adult. However, considering the audience was mostly kids, & the attitude to continuity was pretty loose until well into the '60s...:rolleyes:
 
Top