Columbus' Ships Sink, When is America discovered?

While sailing to India the Nina Pinta and Santa Maria get hit by a hurricane that sinks all of the ships, with no survivors and no one returning to Europe. When is the new world discovered, by whom, and what happens to it after it is discovered? Is it colonized? How would things look 10 years after the discovery? 100? 500?
 
1500 when Cabral makes landfall in Brazil after being blown off-course on his way to India. Even if that's butterflied away, a similar incident will likely happen within a few years. The Portuguese make a note of it (and indeed, may have found it earlier and just not reported it), but focus on the route to India.
 
Contrary to popular belief Colombus did NOT discover America he discovered the Caribbean islands North America was already known of by both the Norwegians and fishermen from places such as western England.
 
1500 when Cabral makes landfall in Brazil after being blown off-course on his way to India. Even if that's butterflied away, a similar incident will likely happen within a few years. The Portuguese make a note of it (and indeed, may have found it earlier and just not reported it), but focus on the route to India.

Well, I'm not so sure about Cabral. There is a lot of historiographic discussion stating that he went West exactly in order to discover if there was any land in the area designated to Portugal in the Treaty of Tordesillas, which is itself a result of Columbus' travels. But I agree that soon or later someone doing the "Volta do Mar" further West would hit Brazil on the way to India.
 
Nothing changes, the Vikings are still the first Europeans in North America and the Natives have been there for millennia. :D:p
 

jahenders

Banned
It's discovered (to the knowledge of Europe at large) just a few years later.
The wrinkles that could make a difference are primarily who and where.
A Spanish-backed expedition is the most likely, in which case things might go similar to IOTL. If someone else (Portuguese, Genoa, England) go to the rich areas first and laid a claim the impact could be huge, but perhaps moreso in Europe than in the Americas. In general, the Natives would still be exploited and would still be ravage by disease. There might have been much more significant battles, but the Europeans would still win out.

However, if someone other than Spain gets a lot of that wealth, it could change the balance of power in Europe substantially. Spain might fade as a major power much earlier.
 
Portugal will discover the Americas sometime between 1500 and 1530. It was an historical accident that Castile and not Portugal hit Americas First.
 
It'll happen quite soon anyway. However, it will change things.

Colombus was extremely motivated to justify the investment in him. He massively overstated the amount of gold found, and his overstatement was widely publicized.

Colombus also discovered the Caribbean Islands first. To Europeans, they were land with low numbers of natives on most of them, and once seized, provided bases that the mainland empires simply could not reach.

Whats more, they provided direct access to the gold-rich empires of Mesoamerica, meaning Europeans were there at the same time as the disease-shock.

A discovery process without Colombus, most likely propagating from Brazil and North America, may involve a drawn-out period of low interest by European powers, until gold and other profitable materials are discovered.

It may also mean that the initial, most severe disease-shocks arrive well ahead of the Europeans, and the European themselves don't get to the empires until they have started to pick up the pieces. The Mesoamerians may also have some information on the Europeans from tribes that have met them by then.
 
If someone else (Portuguese, Genoa, England) go to the rich areas first and laid a claim the impact could be huge, but perhaps moreso in Europe than in the Americas.

Could genoa (or another Italian state0 have done so? I always thought with the Straits of Gibraltar there it would be too easy for a state noe on the west coast of Europe to be blocked from doing anything substantial. What would have happened if one of the Italian states discovered the continental Americas and would they have really been allowed to do anythingwwith them?

I suppose one thought, too, would be a whole bunch of European monarchs rushing to marry their sons to said Italian ruler's daughters so a dowry of that land could be given.
 
Could genoa (or another Italian state0 have done so? I always thought with the Straits of Gibraltar there it would be too easy for a state noe on the west coast of Europe to be blocked from doing anything substantial. What would have happened if one of the Italian states discovered the continental Americas and would they have really been allowed to do anythingwwith them?

I suppose one thought, too, would be a whole bunch of European monarchs rushing to marry their sons to said Italian ruler's daughters so a dowry of that land could be given.

I think that Italians, used to navigate in the Mediterranean as they were, dont have the needed know how to discover the americas at that point.
 
Contrary to popular belief Colombus did NOT discover America he discovered the Caribbean islands North America was already known of by both the Norwegians and fishermen from places such as western England.

He found the Central American mainland on his fourth voyage.
 
1500 when Cabral makes landfall in Brazil after being blown off-course on his way to India. Even if that's butterflied away, a similar incident will likely happen within a few years. The Portuguese make a note of it (and indeed, may have found it earlier and just not reported it), but focus on the route to India.

A similar accident did happen within a few years IOTL - Binot Paulmier de Gonneville, in 1504 (and the guy wasn't even Portuguese).
This particular one will probably also be butterflied away, but its existence pretty much proves that this will happen eventually.

It's debatable whether Cabot will still go without the success of Columbus; if so, he'd be the first (post-Viking) discoverer.
 
Cabot was sent west because of Columbus. No Columbus, no Cabot.

Also, can we stop bringing Gibraltar every time anything about sailing the atlantic is discussed? There wasn't a ban on sailing through the straits or something. There were Italian traders in every port from Cape Verde to Iceland at the time.

People won't respect Genoa's theoretical "rights" to any land if it looks profitable by the way.
 
Icelander might have been popping off to Greenland as late as the 1480s. Someone might get the bright idea to head over to start converting people not too much later. Maybe the Danes would hire Cabot or someone to try to reestablish contact with colonists that might still be there.
 
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