Columbus funded by Portugal

King John the II almost funded Columbus's voyage to the new world, his experts disagreed with the distance Columbus would have to travel. The same thing happened in Spain, but Columbus was still funded there, so it isn't to improbable that this could have happened in Portugal.

This could completely change the colonization of America completely.

At the very least New Spain would be missing some parts.
 
I can guess that South America would mostly speak Portugest instead of Spanish..and the colony that would be Brazil would speak Spanish..
 
King John the II almost funded Columbus's voyage to the new world, his experts disagreed with the distance Columbus would have to travel. The same thing happened in Spain, but Columbus was still funded there, so it isn't to improbable that this could have happened in Portugal.

This could completely change the colonization of America completely.

At the very least New Spain would be missing some parts.

The problem is, Portugal was already making headway sailing around Africa, why take the risk?
 
Portugal doesn't even have that many people does it? I mean that many skilled sailors and captains...
 
Urusai[InFi];2315439 said:
Portugal doesn't even have that many people does it? I mean that many skilled sailors and captains...
The % skilled sailors in portugal is vastly higher then in Spain, they could easily explore ans conquer all the americas, the problem would be to hold it...
 
King John the II almost funded Columbus's voyage to the new world, his experts disagreed with the distance Columbus would have to travel. The same thing happened in Spain, but Columbus was still funded there, so it isn't to improbable that this could have happened in Portugal.

This could completely change the colonization of America completely.

At the very least New Spain would be missing some parts.
It is believed that Portugal knew or suspected of Brazil's existence, so there would still be explorations in Brazil's coast, but funding Columbus could shift some attention to the Caribbeans and surrounding mainland, at the expense of other places in other continents. The problem would be holding territories, a feasible feat but at the expense of other possessions.
 
If the Caribbean is discovered by Portugal then Spain wouldn't press the Pope to change the bull Aeterni Regis of 1481 and the Treaty of Alcaçovas-Toledo of 1479. The new lands follow a North-South division rather than a West-East one. So everything south of Cuba would belong to Portugal. Here a map of the division of new lands according to the treaty of 1479 (the blue line):

southamerica01.jpg
 
If the Caribbean is discovered by Portugal then Spain wouldn't press the Pope to change the bull Aeterni Regis of 1481 and the Treaty of Alcaçovas-Toledo of 1479. The new lands follow a North-South division rather than a West-East one. So everything south of Cuba would belong to Portugal. Here a map of the division of new lands according to the treaty of 1479 (the blue line):

I've heard theories that the Portuguese had already discovered the Caribbean prior to 1492, but hadn't publicized it, as was their habit with any maritime discovery. I don't know a lot about that period of Portuguese history, do you think it's plausible?
 
I've heard theories that the Portuguese had already discovered the Caribbean prior to 1492, but hadn't publicized it, as was their habit with any maritime discovery. I don't know a lot about that period of Portuguese history, do you think it's plausible?

I think it possible, as the Azores are not that distant from the Caribbean. But, in the other hand, their focus was on the route around Africa, so they would probably not invest too much in exploring a Western route. Also, they had a quite good knowledge of the distance between the Asia and Europe, and one of the reasons why Columbus was not funded was that many disagreed on his calculations (that were really wrong after all).

Portuguese explorations of America prior to 1500 are like the ideas of their travels to Australia in the 16th century. They are quite probable, but if they did it they never found anything interesting there to bother claiming the lands. And the majority of the sources that could bring some light to these events vanished after the Earthquake of Lisbon, when the Royal Palace and governamental buildings were completely destroyed.
 
If the Caribbean is discovered by Portugal then Spain wouldn't press the Pope to change the bull Aeterni Regis of 1481 and the Treaty of Alcaçovas-Toledo of 1479. The new lands follow a North-South division rather than a West-East one. So everything south of Cuba would belong to Portugal. Here a map of the division of new lands according to the treaty of 1479 (the blue line):
This means Spain might very well focus on North America. Deviations from that treaty like OTL Philippines may occur in some part of South or Central America. Colonial expansions from other countries will probably occur in less defended parts of the American continents.
 
This means Spain might very well focus on North America. Deviations from that treaty like OTL Philippines may occur in some part of South or Central America. Colonial expansions from other countries will probably occur in less defended parts of the American continents.

I wonder how would be a colonization of the America with Portugal as the main early power. The Portuguese would still have their focus on the commerce with India, so it would be probably slower than it was with the Spanish. And Portugal wouldn't have the same manpower to protect it. Maybe the French, who explored official Portuguese possessions in South America since very early, would have more luck ITTL, stablishing some colony in Brazil, Venezuela or other place.
 
I've heard theories that the Portuguese had already discovered the Caribbean prior to 1492, but hadn't publicized it, as was their habit with any maritime discovery. I don't know a lot about that period of Portuguese history, do you think it's plausible?
Like Gonzaga says, it is possible, but the state doctrine of secret and the devastation the 1755 earthquake caused to Lisbon:( and its records, makes very difficult for us to know the truth.

I wonder how would be a colonization of the America with Portugal as the main early power. The Portuguese would still have their focus on the commerce with India, so it would be probably slower than it was with the Spanish. And Portugal wouldn't have the same manpower to protect it. Maybe the French, who explored official Portuguese possessions in South America since very early, would have more luck ITTL, stablishing some colony in Brazil, Venezuela or other place.
I can see an arc of strong Portuguese presence stretching from the Captaincies region in Brazil to Mexico, including most Caribbean islands, but some of other regions might be explored by the French, the British or the Spanish (depending on how events in North America unfold).
 
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King John the II almost funded Columbus's voyage to the new world, his experts disagreed with the distance Columbus would have to travel. The same thing happened in Spain, but Columbus was still funded there, so it isn't to improbable that this could have happened in Portugal.

This could completely change the colonization of America completely.

At the very least New Spain would be missing some parts.

Columbus had no clue what he was talking about, for instance he had the wrong size of the world. THe Portuguese were competent - they KNEW that Columbus's expedition had no chance of getting to China, none, nil, zip, nada. And, of course, Columbus DIDN'T get there.

So, why on earth would the Portuguese fund an incompetent foreign who didn't know what he was talking about?
 
Columbus had no clue what he was talking about, for instance he had the wrong size of the world. THe Portuguese were competent - they KNEW that Columbus's expedition had no chance of getting to China, none, nil, zip, nada. And, of course, Columbus DIDN'T get there.

So, why on earth would the Portuguese fund an incompetent foreign who didn't know what he was talking about?

Exactly, Columbus got his maths obviously wrong and hit the biggest jackpot of all time.

Also, if Portugal suddenly was reaping huge amounts of gold from the New World wouldn't Spain just then make it a priority to seize the Portuguese Metropol by means fair or foul? After all the did it and made it stick for 80 years. In the OTL conquering Portugal didn't offer huge immediate returns as its wealth was from skills, trade and knowledge, but when the wealth is dug up out of the ground...
 
I think if portugal did end up dominating the Caribbean they would have to open up settlement of their claims to anyone willing to go. This means non-portuguese and probably non-catholic.

Early in their colonization of Africa, so called undesirables such as Jews and criminals were already finding new homes on Sao Tome. So I think that anyone willing to go would be able to. This would end up with a very different Caribbean.
 
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