Columbia, The Susquehanna and the War of 1812

[Krases]

Recently I was thinking about developing a map of the city of Columbia, the alternate capital of the United States located just down river from Harrisburg. Got my giant topographic map of the area ready (thanks USGS) and now I am just trying to come up with ideas for the layout of the city.

But I have a few questions first. Maybe some of you can help me.

• Compared to Washington DC, how defensible is Columbia? The mouth of the river is not even a mile wide and I would wonder if large ships can even navigate up it very far. Havre de Grace and Perry Point would likely make good places for some small artillery forts. Not sure if Garret Island has the stability to support a fortress.
• Was the river around the town of Columbia today at the same level it was in the late 1700's or have the Dam projects down stream caused major reservoirs to form?
• Would defenders have more time to rally, what with the march inland taking so long for the British?

For anyone curious, my rough topographic map stitched together from 4 USGS maps. I actually have it as a vector map. I need to fool around with the scale, but Ive only put 15 minutes into this.

 

[Hurrah!Praga!]

Can't say anything about the dams, but Columbia looks a whole lot more defensible than DC is. Havre de Grace and Perry Point would be excellent places to put artillery, as would the islands where 372 crosses the Susquehanna. Add those forts to the British unwillingness to travel upriver during the War of 1812, and its unlikely that any fleet would ever see the town.

The defenders would also almost certainly have more time to rally than they did against DC, and it's unlikely a British force would so much as attempt to penetrate that far inland by foot.

 

[Dathi THorfinnsson]

A quick google suggests that Lapidum, MD was the head of navigation of the Susquehanna

 

[Krases]

A quick google suggests that Lapidum, MD was the head of navigation of the Susquehanna

I was going to disagree with you at first based on Google Earth imagery but zooming in reveals that there are some huge rocks in that river.

I am not even sure the river need fortresses to protect its mouth. I suppose some small boats could navigate the rocks but that would get tricky fast.

Also, whoever posted all those pictures on google earth while Kyaking down the Susquehanna was smoking something.

 

[Escape Zeppelin]

My memory (I used to live near there) and a quick check of Wikipedia confirm that it is kind of navigable but only with some engineering works. The river is low, wide, and rocky. You could get barges up and down the river but nobody is going to be sailing on it.

 

[Krases]

Good to know that from a defensive perspective, the city would likely have been spared during the War of 1812. Landings probably would have focused on smaller less symbolic communities along the coast. Philidelphia might have been threatened but I have a feeling British forces might have feared going after such a large target with what I think was only around 5k men.

Now my next challenge is moving the Capital to Columbia in the first place. I am thinking about a POD of around the 1750's with the Albany Plan moving forward, and including Nova Scotia and New Brunswick in the agreement during the war. But then later it gets tread on by the British, leading to Nova Scotia and New Brunswick joining the revolution. With more northern states, the capital gets pulled slightly more north.

I am also thinking about how to handle the cities layout. I sort of want the capitol building to be built on the hilltop north of the town. And called the acropolis. I plan to...plan out what the city would look like in the modern era. Especially with the city getting a proto-form based code some kind in the 1950's. I also want to make this city rather huge population wise.

 

[Hurrah!Praga!]

Good to know that from a defensive perspective, the city would likely have been spared during the War of 1812. Landings probably would have focused on smaller less symbolic communities along the coast. Philidelphia might have been threatened but I have a feeling British forces might have feared going after such a large target with what I think was only around 5k men.

Now my next challenge is moving the Capital to Columbia in the first place. I am thinking about a POD of around the 1750's with the Albany Plan moving forward, and including Nova Scotia and New Brunswick in the agreement during the war. But then later it gets tread on by the British, leading to Nova Scotia and New Brunswick joining the revolution. With more northern states, the capital gets pulled slightly more north.

I am also thinking about how to handle the cities layout. I sort of want the capitol building to be built on the hilltop north of the town. And called the acropolis. I plan to...plan out what the city would look like in the modern era. Especially with the city getting a proto-form based code some kind in the 1950's. I also want to make this city rather huge population wise.

That sounds like a reasonable TL if you fill in the details right, and assuming Pennsylvania's willing to surrender the sovereignty of Columbia to the federal government. That's a cool plan for the layout; you can basically do whatever you want since the imposition of a capitol would necessitate some drastic changes in the town.

 

[Krases]

That sounds like a reasonable TL if you fill in the details right, and assuming Pennsylvania's willing to surrender the sovereignty of Columbia to the federal government. That's a cool plan for the layout; you can basically do whatever you want since the imposition of a capitol would necessitate some drastic changes in the town.

According to wikipedia:

In the spring of 1788, Samuel Wright had the area surveyed and formally laid out the town into 160 building lots, which were distributed by lottery at 15 shillings per ticket. "Adventurers", as purchasers were known, included speculators from many areas of the country. Wright and town citizens renamed the town “Columbia” in honor of Christopher Columbus in the hope of influencing the new U.S. Congress to select it as the nation’s capital, a plan George Washington favored; a formal proposal to do so was made in 1789. Unfortunately for the town, when Congress voted in 1790, the final tally was one vote short

George Washington wanted it and Congress was one vote short of selecting it. It was damn close OTL and I think with my timeline, it will be beyond close with its greater proximity to the north.

I am just wondering how to get the city bigger. The hill that overlooks the town will become an 'acropolis of liberty'. A center for the city with some steep, San Francisco-esque roads approaching the top of the hill. I am picturing a sort of Washington mall stretching towards the cliff overlooking the river. This mall comes to a stop with a high, wide memorial bridge that leads over to the opposite hill.

I want this to be a greater capital than OTL. So its a challenge to figure out how to raise the population of the city, get the form based code legalized somehow and raise the height limit. I am thinking the height limit will be relative to the shore of the river next to the town, so monuments built on top of the hill have a roughly 600 foot starting height advantage over buildings built in the town below.

Is that where OTL Washington DC gets its height limit?

 

[Kaiphranos]

My memory (I used to live near there) and a quick check of Wikipedia confirm that it is kind of navigable but only with some engineering works. The river is low, wide, and rocky. You could get barges up and down the river but nobody is going to be sailing on it.

Yes. I grew up in Port Deposit, which got its name from its role as a transhipment point between ocean ships and river flatboats. Another issue for Columbia: the lower Susquehanna was susceptible to damage from ice floes in the winter up until the Conowingo Dam was built in the 30's. Between that and the floods, the bits by the river may need some periodic repair...

 

[Krases]

Yes. I grew up in Port Deposit, which got its name from its role as a transhipment point between ocean ships and river flatboats. Another issue for Columbia: the lower Susquehanna was susceptible to damage from ice floes in the winter up until the Conowingo Dam was built in the 30's. Between that and the floods, the bits by the river may need some periodic repair...

Port Deposit is tiny! That looks like such an nice little town/village to grow up in.

 

[BWeber]

Pittsburgh in a Worst Case Scenario

In my worst case scenario for the war, a post-Madison government in Washington signs a peace agreement with London, but a faction determined to continue the war convenes in Pittsburgh, between New York and the Old Northwest. (see Chapter 8).

 

[Krases]

In my worst case scenario for the war, a post-Madison government in Washington signs a peace agreement with London, but a faction determined to continue the war convenes in Pittsburgh, between New York and the Old Northwest. (see Chapter 8).

My POD is likely going to take place very early, possibly with a successful Albany plan leading to a more thorough "betrayal" by the British Empire leading to a cleaner, more united revolution and early acquisition of large parts of Canada.

This would lead to at least one Canadian state as part of the union and the Capital moving north. I imagine a continuation war, similar to the war of 1812, making Columbia a difficult city to attack.

 

[Lord Grattan]

My POD is likely going to take place very early, possibly with a successful Albany plan leading to a more thorough "betrayal" by the British Empire leading to a cleaner, more united revolution and early acquisition of large parts of Canada.

This would lead to at least one Canadian state as part of the union and the Capital moving north. I imagine a continuation war, similar to the war of 1812, making Columbia a difficult city to attack.

"Southern Ontario", South from Lake Nipissing-French River-Georgian Bay, would make for a nice state.

I like the idea of Columbia being the US capital. The view though from Mount Pisgah, across the river at the Samuel S. Lewis State Park is spectacular and would make an excellent site for the Federal Capitol Building.

 

[FleetMac]

I agree on both counts. Southern Ontario to the USA (while leaving the rest of Canada as still independent) is not only something that could work, but IMO doesn't happen nearly enough in TLs on the site*. And as a proponent of a US capital on or above the Mason-Dixon line (thus preventing the spillage of the Beltway Bandit carpetbaggers over into my beloved Virginia ), Columbia is also a cool notion. As it is, it's been noted how so very defensible yet accessible to travellers the city is, which to me makes it an excellent selection of the seat of this great country's power .

As far as the TL idea, Krases, I can't wait to see what you got; an enacted Albany Plan doesn't happen very often on this site, all's more the pity really.

*And yes, I'm aware that that's where a goodly number of pro-British Colonials fled to in the first place. That just means they'd need to move again or give up and accept their new government. After all, it's not like S. Ontario is necessary for Canada to work as a country, just look at the country's other cities in relation to the US-Canadian border and how they're further north than, say, Niagara.

 

[BWeber]

Albany Plan: No permanent capitol

FYI: The Albany plan did not set a permanent capitol:

. . . shall meet for the first time at the city of Philadelphia, being called by the President-General as soon as conveniently may be after his appointment.

. . . That the Grand Council shall meet once in every year, and oftener if occasion require, at such time and place as they shall adjourn to at the last preceding meeting, or as they shall be called to meet at by the President-General on any emergency; he having first obtained in writing the consent of seven of the members to such call, and sent duly and timely notice to the whole.


http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/albany.asp

 

[Roger II]

According to wikipedia:

Is that where OTL Washington DC gets its height limit?

OTL DC"s height limit was largely a product of panic over the Cairo Hotel and people freaking out about the idea of skyscrapers in the early part of the 20th century; there's literally no reason for there to be a hight limit ITTL and the rocky outrcoppins will be an excellent foundation for tall buildings when those come round. . I do also think that the city will have an easier time expanding either away from the river to the east, with the area besides the river mainly port facilities and later on semi-industrial, or or on the opposite bank of the river.

 

[sloreck]

Here's an idea: While the state of Pennsylvania cedes this new "D.C." to the federal government, and the district is self-governing (under Congress or a mayor) inhabitants of the district get to send a delegate to the state legislature to help select senators, later they vote for senators from Pennsylvania when direct elections of senators comes about. This will alleviate some of the complaints about "taxation without representation" you see on current D.C. license plates. "D.C." does not send anyone to the Pennsylvania legislature, nor are they counted for the House of Representatives.

 

[Krases]

"Southern Ontario", South from Lake Nipissing-French River-Georgian Bay, would make for a nice state.

I like the idea of Columbia being the US capital. The view though from Mount Pisgah, across the river at the Samuel S. Lewis State Park is spectacular and would make an excellent site for the Federal Capitol Building.

*image*

Thats a cool place to put it, I was going to have the capitol much closer to the river. On the hill that Kinderhook occupies overlooking the town of Columbia. I was going to at some point in the 1800's have a tall bridge link both sides of the river starting at the top of the hill. Then a much larger set of bridges down and up stream. The city would grow outward, east and north of the river and along its banks. Thats my vision anyway, lots of great hills in the area...which is part of the reason this timeline has been rough. I can't 'represent' buildings and roads easily on hilly landscapes.

I agree on both counts. Southern Ontario to the USA (while leaving the rest of Canada as still independent) is not only something that could work, but IMO doesn't happen nearly enough in TLs on the site*. And as a proponent of a US capital on or above the Mason-Dixon line (thus preventing the spillage of the Beltway Bandit carpetbaggers over into my beloved Virginia ), Columbia is also a cool notion. As it is, it's been noted how so very defensible yet accessible to travellers the city is, which to me makes it an excellent selection of the seat of this great country's power .

As far as the TL idea, Krases, I can't wait to see what you got; an enacted Albany Plan doesn't happen very often on this site, all's more the pity really.

*And yes, I'm aware that that's where a goodly number of pro-British Colonials fled to in the first place. That just means they'd need to move again or give up and accept their new government. After all, it's not like S. Ontario is necessary for Canada to work as a country, just look at the country's other cities in relation to the US-Canadian border and how they're further north than, say, Niagara.

Canada can definitely get pretty small. Quebec alone would likely be a strong Scandinavian country. It even has a cross in its flag! Ive been very tempted to have the war of 1812 (or its analogue) be much more successful for the USA, seeing as the US starts with such an advantage in already holding a chunk of Canada. But thats more background info, with the focus being on the development of the capital city.

FYI: The Albany plan did not set a permanent capitol:

. . . shall meet for the first time at the city of Philadelphia, being called by the President-General as soon as conveniently may be after his appointment.

. . . That the Grand Council shall meet once in every year, and oftener if occasion require, at such time and place as they shall adjourn to at the last preceding meeting, or as they shall be called to meet at by the President-General on any emergency; he having first obtained in writing the consent of seven of the members to such call, and sent duly and timely notice to the whole.


http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/albany.asp

I know, the Albany plan is just the POD, the capitols locations will be chosen after the revolution. I am just using a signed and later disposed of Albany plan as a catalyst for a more 'thorough' revolution with fewer people staying neutral and fewer people staying loyalist.

OTL DC"s height limit was largely a product of panic over the Cairo Hotel and people freaking out about the idea of skyscrapers in the early part of the 20th century; there's literally no reason for there to be a hight limit ITTL and the rocky outrcoppins will be an excellent foundation for tall buildings when those come round. . I do also think that the city will have an easier time expanding either away from the river to the east, with the area besides the river mainly port facilities and later on semi-industrial, or or on the opposite bank of the river.

Good to know. Part of what I think started the height restriction was fear that buildings like the Cairo Hotel would outgrow national monuments. By having the national mall built on a high hill, the monuments get a head start so to speak.

Now, here is an updated map of what I envision. The area in black is roughly where I plan to put the national mall, but at this point it is far too large compared to OTL (its a mile wide).

 

[Krases]

Here's an idea: While the state of Pennsylvania cedes this new "D.C." to the federal government, and the district is self-governing (under Congress or a mayor) inhabitants of the district get to send a delegate to the state legislature to help select senators, later they vote for senators from Pennsylvania when direct elections of senators comes about. This will alleviate some of the complaints about "taxation without representation" you see on current D.C. license plates. "D.C." does not send anyone to the Pennsylvania legislature, nor are they counted for the House of Representatives.

They have those license plates because DC doesn't have any representatives in the US congress despite having larger populations than Vermont or Wyoming. The argument against them having reps is that DC shouldn't get special treatment compared to other cities.

The logical, but not politically possible thing to do is to not have Senators. Have a much stronger lower house, like the modern UK, and include DC's population as part of the re-districting system with Senators being much less powerful or non-existent.

But then that gets hairy because we aren't like the UK. The US is a federation of states with their own levels of sovereignty and legislative power. Senators are supposed to be delegates from those states, so I don't think its politically feasible to get rid of them. They are supposed to be a republican counterweight against the tyranny of the majority that democracy brings.