College Football in the Confederacy

POD 1860s: In a world where the Confederacy wins the Civil War, how is college football impacted?

1908-1920

Football's lack of popularity in the Confederacy leads to most sources only naming a "continental" champion from 1869-1907. However, starting in 1908 sources begin to name an "American" and "Confederate" champion.

AMERICAN CHAMPIONS

1908: Penn
1909: Yale
1910: Harvard
1911: Princeton
1912: Harvard
1913: Harvard
1914: Army
1915: Cornell
1916: Pittsburgh
1917: Ohio State
1918: Pittsburgh
1919: Harvard
1920: California

CONFEDERATE CHAMPIONS

1908: LSU
1909: Texas A&M
1910: Auburn
1911: Texas A&M
1912: Auburn
1913: Auburn
1914: Texas
1915: Oklahoma
1916: Georgia Tech
1917: Georgia Tech
1918: Georgia Tech
1919: Texas A&M
1920: Georgia

Beginning in 1921, the U.S.A. and C.S.A., celebrating ten years of peace between the two nations, agree to send their champions to the Continental Bowl, which will alternate between a site in the U.S. and a site in the Confederacy. The American champion will be the winner of the Rose Bowl, which will pit the Pacific Coast champion against a team from the East. The Confederacy will send the winner of the Flag Bowl, which will match the winners of the Southern Conference's Dixie and Cotton Division. Controversy erupted from the start, because the Southwest Conference was shut out of the Continental Bowl.

SOUTHERN CONFERENCE DIVISIONS (AS OF 1921)

COTTON: Auburn, Alabama, Georgia Tech, Georgia, Tennessee, Kentucky, Vanderbilt, Mississippi State
DIXIE: Washington & Lee, North Carolina, NC State, Maryland, Virginia Tech, Virginia, Clemson

1921

In a highly touted matchup, the American Collegiate Athletic Association placed Cornell and California in the Rose Bowl. The Indians kicked a field goal late to beat California 17-14. The Southern Conference championship game was a snoozer as Georgia smashed Virginia Tech 27-6. Georgia and Cornell advanced to the Continental Bowl in Atlanta, Georgia, where the Bulldogs rode the home crowd to a 32-18 win. Many thought that Vanderbilt was a better team than Georgia, however, and some wanted to see the two teams meet. They had tied in the regular season.

TO BE CONTINUED.
 
1922

California returns to Pasadena to square off with Princeton for the Rose Bowl. The Bears score twice late to erase a 12-3 deficit and claim a 15-12 victory.

Meanwhile, the Southern Conference swells to 21 teams and the Red, White, and Blue divisions are formed.

Red: LSU, Tulane, Alabama, Auburn, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Vanderbilt
White: Tennessee, Kentucky, Georgia, Georgia Tech, Sewanee, Florida, South Carolina
Blue: South Carolina, Maryland, North Carolina, NC State, Virginia, Virginia Tech, Washington & Lee

The division champions and best non-division champion agree to meet in the conference semifinals and the winners will advance to the Confederate Championship Game.

The first year of this system works somewhat well. Vanderbilt (Red), Virginia Tech (Blue), and Georgia Tech (White). North Carolina edges out Auburn for a wild card berth.

Vandy shuts out North Carolina 21-0 and Georgia Tech falls to Virginia Tech 14-6. The Commodores won the Confederate Championship by beating the Hokies 36-12.

Vanderbilt advances to meet California in Washington DC, where the Commodores pull out a 29-19 win.
 
1923

ROSE BOWL
Illinois 36, California 18

SOUTHERN CONFERENCE PLAYOFFS
Vanderbilt 10, Alabama 10*
Florida 12, Maryland 3

Vanderbilt 23, Florida 12

*Vanderbilt won replay, 6-0.

CONTINENTAL CHAMPIONSHIP
Illinois 15, Vanderbilt 0
 
I think the establishment of the CSA would introduce butterflies that might make this improbable.

Given that intercollegiate "football" was primarily played by northeastern Ivy league schools and a few in the Great Lakes area at the general time immediately following the Civil War, I think it is likely that the evolution of "American Football" might only occur in the north, with "football" remaining more like soccer or rugby in the south. In fact, the CSA might consciously seek to emulate football as it was evolving in Great Britain rather than in the USA.

Also, in OTL, the massive national popularity of college football was really only made possible by the large state universities established as land grant colleges set up during the civil war by funds provided by the US government. If the CSA successfully seceded from the USA, there is no reason to presume an equivalent system of universal public/state universities would become widespread in the Confederacy. Higher education might remain an avenue only for the privileged few who can attend private universities such as Tulane or Vanderbilt or in the US and overseas. The whole perspective on college athletics in the CSA may be a lot more like in Britain: it's only played at a "club" level between colleges and not a moneymaker for the schools.
 
1924

VMI joins the Southern and is placed in the Blue Division.

ROSE BOWL
Notre Dame 27, Stanford 10

SOUTHERN CONFERENCE PLAYOFFS
Alabama 27, Georgia 6
Florida 13, Washington & Lee 3
Alabama 17, Florida 10

CONTINENTAL CHAMPIONSHIP
Notre Dame 41, Alabama 0
 

jahenders

Banned
I agree. There's no reason to think that college football would evolve at all similarly in an independent CSA. It's far more probable that the CSA would collapse, some of those states join the US, and then it evolves from there.

Agree too, that in the CSA, it's more likely to be a limited "club" sport.

Finally, how's it going to work if the US allows minority players and the CSA doesn't?

Assuming college football is limited in the CSA, you might have some guys with potential emigrate to the US to play.

I think the establishment of the CSA would introduce butterflies that might make this improbable.

Given that intercollegiate "football" was primarily played by northeastern Ivy league schools and a few in the Great Lakes area at the general time immediately following the Civil War, I think it is likely that the evolution of "American Football" might only occur in the north, with "football" remaining more like soccer or rugby in the south. In fact, the CSA might consciously seek to emulate football as it was evolving in Great Britain rather than in the USA.

Also, in OTL, the massive national popularity of college football was really only made possible by the large state universities established as land grant colleges set up during the civil war by funds provided by the US government. If the CSA successfully seceded from the USA, there is no reason to presume an equivalent system of universal public/state universities would become widespread in the Confederacy. Higher education might remain an avenue only for the privileged few who can attend private universities such as Tulane or Vanderbilt or in the US and overseas. The whole perspective on college athletics in the CSA may be a lot more like in Britain: it's only played at a "club" level between colleges and not a moneymaker for the schools.
 
I like the idea of Vanderbilt winning championships, but three football conferences is going to be a bit tricky to manage for an actual championship. South Carolina is also listed twice, once in the White league and once in the Blue league. Why not restructure the leagues a bit? Maybe:

Gulf and Upper South: LSU, Tulane, Alabama, Auburn, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Vanderbilt, Sewanee, Tennessee, Kentucky

Coastal: South Carolina, Maryland, North Carolina, NC State, Virginia, Virginia Tech, Washington & Lee, Georgia, Georgia Tech, Florida

What about having the bowls played every other year in a border town and every fourth year on someone's home turf? Florida and Georgia play in Jacksonville instead of Athens or Gainesville, what about St Louis, Cincinnati, Washington DC, Louisville, or El Paso as potential bowl sites?

BTW what does this (lucky) Confederacy include Oklahoma? Arizona/New Mexico? Cuba?
 
Beginning in 1921, the U.S.A. and C.S.A., celebrating ten years of peace between the two nations, agree to send their champions to the Continental Bowl, which will alternate between a site in the U.S. and a site in the Confederacy. The American champion will be the winner of the Rose Bowl, which will pit the Pacific Coast champion against a team from the East. The Confederacy will send the winner of the Flag Bowl, which will match the winners of the Southern Conference's Dixie and Cotton Division. Controversy erupted from the start, because the Southwest Conference was shut out of the Continental Bowl.

This feels a bit too "modern" for my tastes. For a long time, the bowls were basically exhibitions meant to reward a team for a good season. They sprang up in resort cities as a way of boosting tourism (there was even one in Havana, briefly). The alignment of bowls with conference champions was a gradual development, and even then, there was some debate over whether bowl results should be counted as official games. Your timeline seems to skip many decades of gradual evolution in the bowl system towards something that actually mattered in the crowning of a national champion (which, itself, is a concept that took a long time to be accepted as well).

Moreover, if the CSA is a separate country, we cannot be certain that it would accept the same set of rules for football as the USA. It might have introduced its own quirks (like Canadian football), or perhaps gone in a direction much closer to rugby (as in Australian rules football).
 
This feels a bit too "modern" for my tastes. For a long time, the bowls were basically exhibitions meant to reward a team for a good season. They sprang up in resort cities as a way of boosting tourism (there was even one in Havana, briefly). The alignment of bowls with conference champions was a gradual development, and even then, there was some debate over whether bowl results should be counted as official games. Your timeline seems to skip many decades of gradual evolution in the bowl system towards something that actually mattered in the crowning of a national champion (which, itself, is a concept that took a long time to be accepted as well).

Moreover, if the CSA is a separate country, we cannot be certain that it would accept the same set of rules for football as the USA. It might have introduced its own quirks (like Canadian football), or perhaps gone in a direction much closer to rugby (as in Australian rules football).

So true. People need to remember this about bowl games and championships. College football in the US is unique among money-making spectator sports in that deciding a "champion" on the field is a very, very new idea...and is still incompletely established today. Only a few decades ago, bowl games didn't count in the informal "national championship" polls sponsored by various news organizations. Even assuming that college football developed in similar ways as a major money making spectator sport in both the USA and CSA, the idea that there would be any move to develop a "continental" championship seems highly unlikely. I suppose that "bowl" games might be arranged between teams from the CSA and USA but this would be done by the bowl committees for their own revenue purposes.
 
I think the establishment of the CSA would introduce butterflies that mig
Also, in OTL, the massive national popularity of college football was really only made possible by the large state universities established as land grant colleges set up during the civil war by funds provided by the US government. If the CSA successfully seceded from the USA, there is no reason to presume an equivalent system of universal public/state universities would become widespread in the Confederacy.

Just note: University of North Carolina was established as a State-sponsored school in 1789. Without US Gov't involvement. Something similar will still spread
 
Top