Collaborative timeline: Dunes of the Desert

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by Tomislav Addai, Dec 8, 2018.

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  1. Euskadi Herria Banned

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    Can we have a list of all sound changes in the two African Romance languages? It looks to be very interesting.
     
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  2. Tomislav Addai Well-Known Member

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    Tafirkan :
    • Latin s-->sh
    • Latin ce, ci and ge, gi remain hard sounds
    • No diphtongization, no length contasts
    • Latin ll --> dd
    • Latin cl, fl, pl --> cr,fr,pr
    • Latin *ra* --> *al* etc..
    • Initial r turned into ar, initial s into is...
    • Latin intervocalic p, t, k into b, d, g
    • Initial v into b
    • Latin z turned into sd.
    • Final k turned into "ch" as German ch.
    • Latin p turned into f
    (Based on Sardinian sound changes)
    Plus added vulgar latin chanes such as loss of medial vowels calida into calda. Levelling of o and u distinction , merging into u.plossive consonant cluster assimilation.Loss of h. Berber influence results in a "t" infront of words beginning with a. All "e"s are turned either to a or I.
    Maurtañan uses most of these, but takes influence from Old Spanish and Mozarabic : particularly in existence of soft ñ, ż and ł sounds.
     
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  3. Euskadi Herria Banned

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    Thanks
     
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  4. Tomislav Addai Well-Known Member

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    Also no th sounds, no nasals.
    Diferences between languages:
    Where Tafirkan has đ, Mawrtañan has ł or ż. Tiżi would be thus Tiđi ib Tafirkan, while Bulla Rega (Buđarga) would become Bułarga in Mawrtañan
     
  5. Tomislav Addai Well-Known Member

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    Hmm I would just like to emphasize, that anyonevis welcome to join this scenario /timeline
     
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  6. hitcho11 Well-Known Member

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    You have two updates labeled as chapter 3: "Turmoil in the Levant and invasion of Egpyt" and "The Arabian Peninsula". Also, you may want to change the name of Gibraltar, as it's named after Arab general Yabal Tariq, and your TL indicates that they won't reach that far.

    Also, how will you handle the Americas?

    Anyway... I'm really enjoying this TL.
     
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  7. Tomislav Addai Well-Known Member

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    Corrected the chapter numbering. Also, latest update had twice the same text, corrected. Straits of Gibraltar had been known as Pillars of Heracles since thde Antiquity, doubt that it would have changed.
    The Americas remain untouched, for (a ) the butterfly has just reached Hispania, though not Francia yet. (B) there has not been any contact with the Old World so far.
    the first explorers of the northern Atlantic appear to be Celtic hermits, who ventured as far as Iceland. The Visigothic realm may, should circumstances be right , xlore the Azores, Madeira and Canaries...
     
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  8. hitcho11 Well-Known Member

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    Oops, sorry. For the Americas question I meant as in the future. But perhaps it is way too early to even think about it...
     
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  9. Tomislav Addai Well-Known Member

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    At least for me, I shall uncover new areas once the butterfly reaches there; therefore more urgent are questions of development in Francia, India, Sahel or Turkestan. However, should anyone be interested, there are no restraints; it is a collaborative timeline after all.
     
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  10. Euskadi Herria Banned

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    *Berber general Tariq ibn Ziyad

    Jebel means mountain so Jebel Tariq means 'mountain of Tariq'. That's where Gibraltar comes from. Before the Muslims came knocking, it was called Mons Calpe.
     
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  11. hitcho11 Well-Known Member

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    I need to get my facts straight wtf
     
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  12. Threadmarks: Chapter 14: Iranian intermezzo

    Tomislav Addai Well-Known Member

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    The collapse of the Sassanids left the empire of Eranshahr fractured. As has been mentioned earlier, the empire split into various successor realms, some enduring longer than others.
    Among the more successful were the Mihranids. This Parthian clan managed to consolidate rule over much of southern Iran, mainly the areas of Fars, Kermania and the regions of Rayy and Ispahan. This realm tried to preserve as many Sassanid institutions as possible. Unlike western Europe, the Mihranid was organized around state bureaucracy, among whom Zoroastrian clergy played a significant role. The bureaucracy had a significant say in questions such as urban planning or agriculture and state administration in general.

    Soon, the Mihranid state would claim to be the true heirs of the Sassanids, for the absence if other contestants.

    The Karenid satrapies were conquered by the Turkish Oghuz tribes, who established a khanate in Khorasan and ignored the concept of Eranshahr altogether. While the new rulers encouraged Nestorianism, a significant amount of Turks came into contact with Manicheism as well.

    The region of Dihistan (1) has been remaining under the rule of the Karenids, yet the area had become a tribal realm, yet with an Iranian cultural heritage.

    Similarly, the tribes locked between the Caspian and the Elborz mountains reasserted their independence. The area was rather inaccessible, and subduing the skilled javelinmen and dagger experts (2) was simply not worth the effort.

    In western Iran, right beyond the Zagros in ancient Media, the state-sponsored Zoroastrian church after losing the support of the state lost support among the people as well: the Kurds return to Yazdanism their ancestral faith, the majority adopts Zurvanism , a Zoroastrian reform movement, while others stick to Nestorianism, Manicheism or other Gnostic movements. Politically, most of this area is rather tribal, and Sawad, Armenia and Mihranid Persia compete for influence.

    The regions Sistan and Makran , found halfway between Iran and India, are tribally orgabized as well. The major faith in this region is Zunism, akin to Hinduism yet centered around sun-worship.
    The eastern fringe of Greater Iran was the region of Kabulistan. Yet the area was now culturally part of the Indian subcontinent - the Kabul Shahis had already adopted Hinduism..

    Across the Hindukush lay the lands of Bactria at the upper reaches of the Oxus (3), now also known as Tokharistan (4). This region spoke an Eastern Iranian language called Bactrian, not that distantly related to Sogdian (5). Yet the major differences between Bactria and Sogdia were rather cultural: for Bactria has become a thoroughly Buddhist realm (with a significant Manichean presence), Sogdia maintained a multireligious identity. The different cultural development can be seen in the varied alphabets adopted for their languages: while Sogdian took up a modified version of the Syriac alphabet, which is a testimony to strong contacts along the Silk Road with Mesopotamia, the Bactrian language was written down by Greek letters, a testinomny to the Greco-Bactrian kingdom founded by the soldiers of Alexander the Great.

    The cultural unity enforced by the Sassanids was now eroding,not only in terms of religion, but language as well. Persian remained the court language in the Mihranid realm only, for the others adopted their own varieties for official use.

    The Iranian world found itself in a shape similar to that of the Mediterranean in times of great migration. The existence of a Sassanid Persia enabled a degree of cultural contact of the Mediterranean with the civilizations of India and Sogdia, where the transitions were rather smooth. It appears however, that many peripheral areas were now more tribal than civilized, yet other areas such as the Caucasus or Kabulistan were drifting into the Rhomaic and Indian cultural spheres, respectively

    (1)western Turnenistan
    (2) this skill was used later by the Assassins
    (3) most of Tajikistan and northeastern Afghanistan
    (4) This has, however little to do with the Tocharian languages of the Tarim basin. Those were erroneously identified with the Hephtalites, who were labelled as Tocharoi in ancient Greek sources.
    (5) of Uzbekistan
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2018
  13. Euskadi Herria Banned

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    Will the Zunists survive in this timeline?
     
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  14. Tomislav Addai Well-Known Member

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    Nothing in this timeline is guaranteed. As for now, they are rather safe, in the Sistan and Zabulistan regions..
     
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  15. Threadmarks: Chapter 15: The Eurasian Steppe

    Tomislav Addai Well-Known Member

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    Reaching from Lake Balaton in Pannonia to lake Ussuri in Manchuria, the Eurasian Steppe is the largest grassland area in the world.To the north, it is bound by the taiga - an immense confierous marshy forest covering a large part of Siberia, while to the south lie the deserts of Karakum, Kyzilkum, Taklamakan and Gobi. In order to avoid these hostile envrionments, the tribes were thus forced to move in the east-west direction (mostly westwards, however).
    upload_2018-12-29_10-52-7.jpeg [​IMG]
    The vast grassland had favoured nomadic herdsmen, who mastered the art of horseriding, and became very skilled horse-archers. While the early western steppe had been dominated by Iranic peoples during the antiquity, such as Cimmerians, Scythians and Sarmatians, the eastern parts were home of the Mongolian and Turkic peoples.Yet in the easrly 8 th century, the Iranian speakers have been bushed southwards by the expanding Turkic nomads - the western or Pontic Steppe had become dominated by Khazars, a Turkic people of the Oghur stock, who ruled an empire based on the lower Idhel (1) river, extending as far west as Taurica (2) and to the foothills of the Caucasus. While the Khazars were at first Tengri pagans, there have been several missions aiming to convert them to a major religion. While Zoroastrism had been severely weakened by the collapse discussed earlier, Christianity was making successful inroads into the Khazar held territory. Orthodox missionaries have already converted a significant share of Alanian (3) nobilitiy, and were ministering among the Circassians as well. Further eastwards, in cities such as Semender, in a region called Dagestan by some, Miaphysite missionaries coming from Aghvank(4) were active. Armenian traders brought their religion with them into the major cities of the country, yet even more Jews have been arriving from both the Rhomaic empire, Caucasus and the Balkans as well. Judaism soon became quite popular among many lesser nobles of the realm.

    To the west of the Khazars, the Magyars lived in the region between the middle Dniepr and the Don rivers (5). A rather peculiar phenomenom indeed, for their language is witness that they must have migrated from southern Siberia, for they spoke a Uralic tongue akin to that of Khantis. Their northeastern neighbours were the Modvins, another Uralic people inhabitting the steppe woodland region between the Oka, the Don and the Volga.

    At the confluence of the Idhil and Kama rivers, another Turkic state emerged.Founded by a branch of Boulghars(6) who fled north after their empires conquest by the Khazars, they were ultimately forced to submit and become a vassal of the Khazars. Yet the Boulghars thrived and prospered, for their capital, Bulghar lay on a major trade route, connecting Scandinavia with the Caspian basin, and it was also center of contact with the Permian and Nenets peoples.

    South of the Boulghars lay the lands of Pechenegs on the middle Oural river, at the upper reaches of which were the settlements of the Bashkirs.
    The Oghuz Turks have moved into the region of Khorasan, thus their lands north of the Aral Sea have been occupied by the Kipchaks. These formed a tribal confederation with the Kimeks (who had been converting to Manicheism), who occupied much of the land of the central steppe (7). Across the Balkash lake as the Turgesh chiefdom , on its eastern shore lived the Manichean Turkic Chigils, while on the western foothills of the Altai lived the Basmyls, a Turkic tribe gradually adopting Nestorian Christianity. The Karluks were now the easternmost Turkic tribe, living in the Dzungar basin.

    East of the Altai lay the still existent Eastern Gokturk Khanate, a nomadic empire encompassing pretty much the Mongolian cultural sphere. Yet unmentioned remains the Tarim basin - a bordered by the Tibetan plateau to the south and the Tianshan to the north, lying along the caravan routes of the Silk road. its majority is inhospitable, for it is filled by the hostile Taklamakan desert, those who live there, survive on its edges. The area had been for long home to East-Iranian speaking Buddhists, organized around the kingdom of Khotan and Sule, yet it has been experiencing an influx of Uyghurs, particularly in its eastern and northern regions. These areas are home to peoples speaking the Arsi (8) languages, a distinct branch of Indo-European languages, most akin to Celtic. The peoples there were exposed mostly to Buddhism and Manicheism, which and been also adopted by the incoming Uyghurs. The Tarim basin was thus mostly Buddhist, and its contact with India is confirmed by the shape of the Arsian script, which took its influence from the Brahman one.

    (1)Volgar
    (2) Crimea
    (3) ancestors of Ossetians
    (4)Caucasian Albania
    (5) most probably they were not called as such yet , but you know..
    (6) the other group invaded the Lower Danube basin
    (7) That is, Kazakhstan
    (8) Tocharian. This is a name they used for one of their variety from modern Karashahr.
     
  16. Threadmarks: Chapter 16: Legacy of Rome

    Tomislav Addai Well-Known Member

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    The Roman Empire used to cover the entire Mediterranean basin at the noon of its glory. Yet on its ruins, from its ashes several realms emerged. Most widely, the Rhomaic empire was seen as the most true successor of the original Senatus populusque Romanum. While reduced to the former Pretorian prefectures of Macedoniae, Asian, Pontus and southern half of Thraciae, as well as portions of coastal Italy here and there(1). The Isaurian dynasty (2), who rules the empire during the larger part of the 8th century. The reign of Leo III was marked by several events: on one hand was a further colonization of northwestern Anatolia by Slavic clans, in the legal dimension, ancient Roman law in the form of Codex Iustinianus has been revised into a new code of law called the Ecloga. In its effects, this caused the end of serfdom within the empire, and serfs became free tenants.
    In religious policy, the new emperor favored a rather strict view regarding the veneration of icons. While not yet official policy with the force of law, any veneration of icons was now frowned upon, and the Emperor aims to dissuade his subjects from such customs. His rather strict view on religion was in contrast to his policy of persecution of other strict sectarian movements such as Montanists. Jews were force-baptized. The conflict with the Pope in Rome was deepened by the Emperor transferring Calabria, Basilicata and Apulia, as well as Sicily and Ilyricum from the authority of Rome to the Patriarchate of Constantinople.

    The next Emperor, Constantine V., was concerned with securing the northern and southeastern borders of the Empire (3). On the Syrian front, important advances were made - the conquest of the entire region of Cilicia ,of Edessa and the city of Antioch with environs. There, he could once more count upon the Antiochian Greeks, who once more sought support from Constantinople. In the north, the Rhomaic empire from its bases in the Axios valley (4) sought to regain some of the lost territories even further northwards. They managed to regain Naissos (5) and Serdica (6). In Italy, however, the Lombards conquered Ravenna, which were a center of Rhomaic administration in the area. This, however, was connected with Rome, and this stripe of land (8) cut the Lombard state in two, disallowing effective control of the south of the country from the Lombardic capital at Pavia
    In the south however, the remaining areas of Tafirca, roughly corresponding to late roman provinces of Zeugitana and Byzacena, were reincorporated into the empire

    Leo IV and Constantine VI lacked any strong landmark of their rule. However, in the later years of the Isaurian dynasty, the policy regarding the venreation of icons were changed, and such practice was allowed more openly (yet its staunch critics could be found within parts of Anatolia).

    The remaining parts of the former East Roman Empire had historical traditions of its own , and did not aim to replicate Roman symbolism. Such was the case particularly in Egypt, which had a history far longer than Rome. Yet in the west, there were numerous states that aimed to claim the legacy of Rome as theirs - most notably, the two most important competitors for such a title could be found in Hispania and Gallia.

    These two were most advanced, yet soon they faced the problems of administering a larger realm and the problems of succession. The Frankish custom of dividing the realm amongst the heirs upon succession proved disastruous to the stablity of administration and royal majesty as well. The Visigoths adopted a custom of electing the king; the problems of local administration were to be solved by devolution - a concept that is sometimes described as protofeudalism; in contrast to the "real" feudalism in the Hispanic variant, it were public oaths of loyalty to the liege, not individual ones as in the later variant. Yet in Hispania, and Gaul itself a change of society resulted in a move out of the city, out of the urban center to the castle. Such a change was quite a natural development in Hispania and Gallia, more so in Germany, for the areas were not densely populated during Roman times either. The climate allowed for a dispersed population, and agriculture was more effective in such a manner. A castle was thus a seat of local administration, the seat of the noble who collected tax from the rural populace, who would in times of danger seek refuge in the fortified place.

    The Iberian peninsula, formerly the Roman Pretorian prefecture of the Hispanies was now controlled by the Visigothic kingdom, who controlled also the coastal strip of Septimania, the last parts of the former Visigothic hold in Viennensis (9). The aim of the later Visigothic kings was to reclaim Tolosa, the former capital of their kingdom from the Franks. They aspired to be recognized as emperors of the west, and the Pope used to address the Visigothi kings as "imperator Hispaniae et rex Gothorum"

    Francia by this time was dominated by the mayors, and role of the Merovingian dynasty was merely symbolic. The ruling majordomi campaigned to establish Frankish hegemony over western Europe by subduing neighboring Germanic tribes - Alamanni, Bavarians, Frisians. Aquitania, a region roughly between the Loire and the Pyrennees was long hoping to separate itself from Frankish rule. This effort to weaken their major rival rival was sponsored and supported by Visigoths and Lombards as well.



    (1) This althist Byzantium is comparatively stronger to its OTL counterpart, due to including all of Greece, Macedonia , Albania as well as Upper Thrace within its borders.
    (2) Maybe the original identity of the persons was digfferent. For some reason, most my laziness or lack of creativity, similar dynasties arise in places and times, as they would have in OTL. Yet, due to butterflies, their actions are somewhat different
    (3) Divergent from OTL. In OTL the Emperor was concerned mainly with the Balkans. In ATL, with Balkans secured, major focus is in Syria
    (4) Vardar Macedonia
    (6) Niš,Serbia
    (7) Sofija, Bulgaria
    (8) similar to the borders of Papal States
    (9) Roughly corresponding to Occitania
     
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  17. Tomislav Addai Well-Known Member

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    Does anyone have a nice 800AD basemap?
     
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  18. Gian Wizard of Watkins Mill Kicked

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    This is interesting. Will follow.

    BTW @Tomislav Addai, I could create a map of all religions as of 800AD (plus cultures)
     
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  19. Tomislav Addai Well-Known Member

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    That would be great. Going to update the situation in Francia and Africa
     
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  20. Threadmarks: Chapter 17: Francia - of mayors, dukes and kings

    Tomislav Addai Well-Known Member

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    As has been mentioned previously, the early 8 the century saw the rise of power of the Mayors. It were the Majordomi who were the real power in Frnacia at the time, while the role of the monarch has been reduced to a mere representative role. After the death of Pipin of Herstal, the office of the majordomus was contested between Theodoald (supported in Austrasia)(1) and Charles (2) in Neustria (3). The struggle was won by Charles after defeating Theodald. Any opposition to his rule now fled either to Aquitaine, which had become independent during the civil war under count Odo (Eudes) or to other Germanic tribes such as the Saxons. After consolidating his rule among the Germanic tribes, an alliance in the southwest emerged: the coalition of Aquitaine, Provence and the Visigoths, who were trying to prevent Frankish hegemony in the west (4).

    By 732, the Frankish forces invaded Aquitaine. Yet the latter kingdom was aided by Visigothic cavalrymen and Spanish skirmishers, who effectively defeated the army of majordomo Charles (5), thus ending Frankish authority south of the Loire. Yet Charles secured Burgundy and Provence as well as an access to the sea. His military successes, despite the defeat in Aquitaine, gave him a victorious aura, which bolstered the office of the majordomus, to such extent, that not only had been the kings appointed by the majordomi (in the beginning of his rule), but in the later years, an interregnum becma ethe state of affairs, for no kings was proclaimed. While not caring about official titles so long as real power was concentrated in his hands, his successors did.
    The western parts of the realm - Neustria and Burgundy - were ruled by Pipin the Short, while Austrasia and the stem duchies passed to Carloman. The latter later retired to a monastery, which allowed Pippin to become the sole ruler of the Franks.

    Giving up pretense, Pippin sought to obtain the royal dignity and overthrew the last Merovingian king Childeric, who had been previously approved by both Pippin and his brother. This move was sanctified by the Pope, who was hard pressed by the Langobards. The Lombards had by now conquered most of the remaining Rhomaic posessions on peninsular Italy, known as the exarchate of Ravenna. Pippin defeated the Langobards in a brief campaign, and the areas of Latium and Pentapolis became known as the Donation of Pippin - a basis for the temporal power of the Roamn Pontiff
    Subsequently Pippin conquered Aquitaine and even Septimania out of the hands of the Visigoths (who were now facing internal problems due to increased decentralization).

    According to the Frankish custom, the empire was once more divided, now between Charles I. and Carloman I. The latter died not longtime afterwards, while the former would enter into history under the name Charlemagne, that is, Charles the Great.

    (1) Eastern part of Francia in the Rhine basin
    (2) OTL Charles Martel
    (3) northern France, in the Seine basin
    (4) Alternate scenario to the Battle of Tours
    (5) Without the civilizational identity being at risk, there would be less soldiers gathered at the Frankish side. Charles would have never earned the title "Martel"
     
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