Collaborative timeline: Dunes of the Desert, a Timeline without Islam

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by Tomislav Addai, Dec 8, 2018.

  1. Tomislav Addai Well-Known Member

    May 13, 2017
    Also this is a shoutout to @marcus antonios who is going to focus on the British isles and the regions roundabout, waiting for you updates
  2. marcus antonios Lord of war

    Sep 15, 2015
    was buisy with army reserves
  3. Tomislav Addai Well-Known Member

    May 13, 2017
    Oh so can we expect an update any time soon or rather not?
  4. marcus antonios Lord of war

    Sep 15, 2015
    in 5 days
  5. Tomislav Addai Well-Known Member

    May 13, 2017
    Alright that's cool, waiting for some France and Germany update
  6. Threadmarks: Chapter 67: Magyars, Slavs and Vlachs

    Tomislav Addai Well-Known Member

    May 13, 2017
    So here we are back, on the eastern side of the Adriatic Sea, in Croatia. This country had been tributary under the Macedonian dynasty to the Rhomaic Empire, however as the opportunity for independence arrived, the Croats quickly took advantage of it.
    A political map of the area
    The Croatian language is known to be composed of three different dialects: Chakavian, Shtokavian and Kajkavian. These dialects are of course located in different parts of the country, and the predominance of one over another also signifies the predominant cultural ties of the country. The Kajkavian dialect is spoken in the area around Zagreb and Varaždin, and is closer to Slovene than anything else. One could even speculate and claim that Kaykavians are those Slovenes who stayed outside the borders of Germany. Nevertheless, this dialect is closely connected to German influence. The Štokavian dialect spoken in the eastern parts, near Bosnia is very similar to Serbian, and is connected to Rhomaic influence. Ultimately, the Chakavian dialect, uniquely Croat, although sharing quite a few Romance features, is spoken in the littoral areas, from Rijeka down to Split, and is influenced of course by Italy (1).

    Croatia during the 11th century includes the entire Adriatic Coast, from Rijeka down to the Neretva estuary, as well as the Tropolje region (2), as well as the valleys of the rivers Una, Sana and Vrbas. In the north, Croatia extends up to the Drava River, which forms its northern borders roughly from Varaždin to its confluence with Danube.

    The Dalmatian speakers, descendants of the Romanized Illyrians are still a considerable factor in the kingdom of Croatia. They can be found in the littoral areas, especially on the Dalmatian islands, but also in the coastal towns of Jadera, Tragur, and Spalato (3). These urban communities were an important factor in the economy of the kingdom; outside the control of the Croat kings were the Dalmatians in Venetian Cattaro (4) and the independent merchant republic of Ragusa.
    Stradun, the main street of Ragusa
    Further inland, there was the emerging Duchy of Bosnia, based around the eponymous river. The rather isolated highland area was thinly populated and when they broke free, no one really cared, had they not embraced a heretical religion. As it happened, a significant number of Paulicians had been deported from their homeland on the borders between Anatolia and Armenia, and were installed in central Thrace (5). Apparently, those areas were visited by Vlach herders, who somehow carried those ideas with them into Bosnia. There, the Paulician faith (Pavličenstvo) became the state religion of the Duke and many of his nobles (6). The Paulicians of Bosnia are sometimes described as an offshoot of Manicheans, other times as Dualists – basically something very similar to the Cathars. Anyhow, this choice of religion has made Bosnia the odd one out in the Balkans.
    The Paulician enclaves in Bosnia and Thrace.
    The eastern neighbour of Bosnia, Serbia, remains true to the Orthodox faith, however. Serbia in the 11th century is centred on the mountainous regions between the Neretva River and Lake Skadar, plus extending northwards along the Drina Valley. Although unified under a common king, the country is still divided into two entities: Zeta in the littoral (7) and Raška (8) further inland. Serbia struggles to maintain its newly achieved independence vis-à-vis the energetic Rhomaic Empire.

    The Pannonian Basin, encircled by the Carpathian Mountains, is naturally destined to be unified as one political or at least economic entity. The Kingdom of Hungary under the House of Arpád now involves also the Duchy of Zemplín (ruled as a fief under the House of Laborecký) and the Duchy of Nitra (ruled by the House of Divinsky). The kingdom did also include the valley of the Morava and Thaya Rivers as well
    Saint Stephen is celebrated as the founder of the Kingdom of Hungary
    The Kingdom of Hungary is thus a more decentralized realm (9), which also features a striking ethnic diversity. The lowland regions, especially the Alfold, was inhabited predominantly by Magyars, an Ugric people, who have assimilated the remains of Avars and Turkic Bulgarians in the area. The second most numerous linguistic group were of course the speakers of Slavic languages: especially Sloviens (10) living in the valleys of the Váh Nitra, Hron and other rivers at the southern foothills of the Western Carpathians, as well as in Moravia. The Sloviens had a superior material culture that Magyars, and as you can see, much of Magyar terminology was derived from Slavic terms.

    Other Slavic groups within the Hungarian realm include the Ruthenes at the eastern extremities of the Carpathian Mountains, or Wends (11) in southwestern Pannonia around the Zala River, akin to their cousins in Styria, Carinthia and Carniola. These are thought to have been the descendants of the people ruled by Koceľ (12) a century earlier.

    Ultimately, we still have some Pannonian Romance speakers, located in Transdanubia. Apart from a few villages and towns in the Vesprém Mountains, they are otherwise restricted to the region of Baranya in southeastern Transdanubia. Most of them live as artisans and guildsmen, and amongst them was a very high proportion of local Hungarian clergy. Many bishops and abbots in the kingdom were of Pannonian descent.
    The diverse linguistic makeup of the Lower and Central Danube Basins
    An increasing number of Germans was also arriving into the Kingdom of Hungary. They were welcome as urban townsmen and did not settle in the countryside at all. Most of them were directed either into Pannonia, or Slovakia.

    Outside of the control of Hungarian kings remains the Duchy of Ardeal, also known in Latin sources as Transylvania. The Transylvanian Basin is indeed a square-shaped mountain fortress, and the Dukes of Ardeal managed to preserve its independence throughout the entire century. Its population consisted of Slavic Bulgarians in the north (in the foothills of the Eastern Carpathians) and Vlachs in the south (on the foothills of the Southern Carpathians). However, both of these ethnic groups were rather diverging from their cousins to the south of the Danube. Especially Transylvanian Bulgarian was converging with neighbouring Russian to such extent, that Erdeljan Bulgar should be rather classified as an East Slavic language, than as a South Slavic one.

    Also the Rhomaic authors spoke of “Balachos peradrumi” (Vlachs beyond the forests), whom they regard as barbaric and tough, yet still having a hidden piece of “Roman-ness” in them, in contrast to the Vlachs living within the boundaries of the Empire.

    Unlike Hungary, Ardeal continues to use the Eastern-Rite Christianity, taking Slavonic as the liturgical language.

    The southern neighbour of Ardeal is Oltenia, with its capital in Severin. Oltenia is exposed to Pecheneg raids from the east.

    (1) Early Croatia, when it was centered on Dalmatia and Lika was predominantly Chakavian speaking. Shtokavian is the present-day standard form OTL, and became so widespread only after the Ottoman incursions.

    (2) Around the towns of Livno, Duvno and Drvar.

    (3) Zadar, Trogir and Split.

    (4) Kotor in Montenegro

    (5) Interestingly enough, those areas are home to Bulgarian-speaking Muslims, called Pomaks

    (6) Yes, this is Bogomilism, but the Bulgarian priest Bogomil isn’t around, as we don’t have that many Bulgarians around either…

    (7) Montenegro

    (8) Roughly Sanjak.

    (9) Compared to OTL, especially in the north.

    (10)Slovaks. The suffix –ák is much later, originally they were called as such

    (11)Contiguous with Prekmurje Slovenes. I suppose that the Wends used to occupy a much larger area historically

    (12)Son of Pribina. Latinising his name into Cocelius sounds fun J
  7. Tomislav Addai Well-Known Member

    May 13, 2017
    About to do a write-up of Eastern Europe (Russia, Poland,Baltic, Finnic lands). What do you think will happen to the Merya principality, an essentially Finnic state on the Upper Volga (Rostov, Kostoma, Nizhniy Novgorod)? Is it to stay pagan (Lithuania-style?), accept Christianity from Rus or Manicheism from Bulgaria?
  8. Threadmarks: Chapter 68: Baptism of Merya and Fragmentation of Rus

    Tomislav Addai Well-Known Member

    May 13, 2017
    Continuing further northeast into the region of Eastern Europe, into the East European Plains. The previous regional hegemon, the Kievan Rus, is now experiencing a period of fragmentation. After the death of Yaroslav the Wise, the realm became divided into a series of principalities, ruled by various members of the direct or cadet branches of the Rurik dynasty.
    A linguistic makeup of Eastern Europe
    Top-ranking in the hierarchy is Grand Duchy of Kiev, controlling also the areas to its westwards, towards the region of Volhynia and the Bug River, also including the Pinsk Marshes. To its southwest is the Duchy of Galicia, also to encompass the upper valleys of the Prut and Dniester Rivers. Galicia located at the northern foothills of the Carpathians was also in frequent contact with neighbouring Poland and Hungary. The role of the estates, especially the Boyars and Burghers was rather high in Galicia, and they came to dispose of the right to nominate the monarch.

    Two further principalities were based on the lower Dnieper River, Pereyaslavl and Chernigov. The latter corresponded more-less to the territories of the Severians, and extended also to the Upper Oka, to Ryazan. Chernigov was thus given the task of protecting the rest of the East Slavic principalities from southward incursions by the Steppe peoples.
    The nomadic tribes to the south were an everlasting threat
    Further northwards, in the central parts of the former Rus lands are two principalities that of Smolensk and Polotsk, separated roughly by the upper course of the Dnieper River. The Duchy of Polotsk was centred mostly on the upper course of Dvina River, and subsequently incorporated also territories further downstream, notably the Latgalian duchy of Getsike and Jersika. This is actually the first of the Baltic tribes to come into contact with Christianity and accept baptism.

    The northernmost of the East Slavic principalities was that of Novgorod. The city enjoyed its position and trade links over the Baltic Sea. The merchants and boyars begin to acquire more wealth and influence. Novgorodian society and culture is very close to that of Scandinavia, true to the Varangian roots of the original band of Hrorekr adventurers. The Novgorodian trade network has come to extend into Finnic lands further north, into Finland proper, Karelia and Vepsia. Those areas maintained their independence and chieftains, and were vital suppliers of furs, which became the key export of Novgorod.

    From the linguistic point of view, the Eastern Slavic branch is now forming a dialect continuum, based along the major north-south axis, extending from Novgorod through Polotsk and Smolensk southwards to the middle Dnieper (Kiev, Chernigov, Pereyaslavl, ultimately ending in Galicia and northern Moldavia. The early variants of Old Novgorodian, Old Ruthenian – dialects of Polotsk, Kiev and Galicia, as well as Moldavian Bulgarian are gradually diverging (1).
    A political map of the East European Plain
    As for the Merya, they remain an independent principality on the Upper Volga River, but have come under the influence of the neighbouring East Slavic culture, adopting Christianity from them. However, the principality remains solidly ethnically Finnic, with the Merya language becoming the dominant in the Upper Volga valley (2).

    The Duchy of Merya has thus incorporated a collection of Volga Finnic tribes: the Meshchera, the Muromians, the Cheremis and the Merya themselves. Also included were the southernmost Veps people. Solely the southeasternmost Volga Finnic tribe, the Mordva, remained outside of the Merya Duchy.

    Along with Christianity, which established itself by the bishoprics of Obran Osh (Metropolitan Bishopric) , Sara and Murom (3) came also the penetration of East Slavic culture and language, in the form of the Old Church Slavonic as liturgical language and East Slavic as a general lingua franca of the merchants and also the nobility. However, this linguistic contact has not resulted in full-scale assimilation of the Finnic languages by the East Slavic tongues; rather it had the form of intense lexical borrowings from the more civilized Slavic neighbours, in matters of religion. In the spheres of commerce and warfare, the Volgaic languages also borrowed quite a few words from Bolghar language further downstream.
    Paganism still remains dominant to the southeast of the Baltic Sea
    Further north are only the tribes of the Komi, the Nenets and Veps at the estuary of the Northern Dvina, which are then bordered by the Karelians to their west. These peripheral tribes are still mainly Finnic pagans, intensively trading with the merchants of Novgorod.

    This was also true for the Finns, the Ingrians and the Estonians. As for the Baltic tribes, we can observe larger tribal chiefdoms, especially those of the Semigallians, Selonians and Curonians, as well as Samogitians, Lithuanians, Sudovians and Prussians. As mentioned earlier, the easternmost Baltic tribes living in Latgalia were subjugated by the Principality of Polotsk and accepted Christianity, at least superficially.

    The Curonians were the dominant maritime tribe of the Baltics, and became quickly known as the “Baltic Vikings”, making their living as merchants and raiders in the Baltic Sea. Further south, the Lithuanians has become the dominant chiefdom, with the southernmost sector being dominated by the Yotvingians, also known as Sudovians (to the south of the Nemunas River) and Prussian tribes in the southwest. The names of these tribes have been preserved by German historians: Pomesanians (Pameddi),Varmians (Warmi),Pogesanians (Paguddi), Natangians (Notangi),Sambians (Semba), Nadrovians (Nadrauwa),Bartians (Barta), Scalovians (Skallawa), and Galindians (Galinda).
    A map of Prussian tribes
    Further southwards is the Kingdom of Poland, which in the early 11th century under Boleslaw the Brave became a mighty power in the region. However, his conquests did not last long, as his heirs came squabbling among themselves. Thus Poland was once more restricted to the core areas between the Odra and Vistula River, encompassing the Lesser, Greater Poland and also Masovia and Silesia. (4).

    To the northwest of Poland, the Pommeranian Coast is still a refuge to perhaps the last Slavic pagan realms. Just west of the Vistula delta, we have the Duchy of Pommerelia. This area had been subjugated by Poland under Boleslaw the Bold, but has again broke free after his death. Centred on Gdansk, it borders the Duchy of Pommerania to its west. Pommerania is also a west Slavic pagan realm, based on the both sides of the Odra estuary, with its capital at Stettin, but also including the island of Rujana (5), with the Slavic temples at Cape Arkona. The Pommeranians are also known to engage in maritime trade and raiding. Pommerania was in frequent contact with the Norse via the emporia of Ralswiek and Wolin.

    (1) Yes, no Great Russian (modern Russian language around Moscow) present in this TL. I know that no Muscovy is going to have big implications. Let us wonder how this world would look like.

    (2) The Merya principality geopolitically corresponds to the Duchy of Vladimir-Suzdal, which later evolved into Muscovy

    (3) Obran Osh lay in the site of OTL Nizhniy Novgorod, a

    (4) As further developments happened without major departures from OTL, I see no reason to write more about the internal develoments of the early Polish state.

    (5) Ruegen, in German
  9. Threadmarks: Miscelanous: Feudal Lords II Game Setup

    Tomislav Addai Well-Known Member

    May 13, 2017
    Hello guys, this is another dev diary from the Feudal Lords II. as you all know, the Paradox Enterprises have been doing their best to develop a grand strategy game for the medieval period.Below, you can see the kingdoms and empires setup, respectively:
    Feudal Lords 2 also deals with such abstractions as religion:
    And culture:
    Gabingston and Beanstalk like this.
  10. Tomislav Addai Well-Known Member

    May 13, 2017
    Waiting for updates in Western Europe, ok J the meantime I am writing up some lore on the Church of the East...
  11. hitcho11 Well-Known Member

    Jul 16, 2017
    San Miguel de Culiacán, Nueva España
  12. Tomislav Addai Well-Known Member

    May 13, 2017
    Oh thank you.
    Tackling the issue of chapter 54?... We'll get to it when we get to it... :) I didn't realize the error at all.
  13. WotanArgead God of Impalers

    Jun 19, 2016
    Ural People's Republic. Ekaterinburg.
    Could write a patch number
  14. Tomislav Addai Well-Known Member

    May 13, 2017
    Sure. What about?
  15. WotanArgead God of Impalers

    Jun 19, 2016
    Ural People's Republic. Ekaterinburg.
    I mean, OTL in the early versions of the game there was only feudal Europe, and the pagans weren't divided.
  16. Tomislav Addai Well-Known Member

    May 13, 2017
    Sorry, could you precise a little more, I failed to understand what you were saying
  17. WotanArgead God of Impalers

    Jun 19, 2016
    Ural People's Republic. Ekaterinburg.
    Feudal Lords II is an alternative version of Crusader Kings 2. In our reality, Crusader Kings 2 initially included only feudal Europe, and only Catholics and Orthodox were playable. Pagans, rulers of the Steppe and the Middle East. Strictly speaking, the addition of India required a separate addition. And in fact, this is understandable - a game with a large number of mechanics could not be quickly done.
    Beanstalk and Tomislav Addai like this.
  18. Tomislav Addai Well-Known Member

    May 13, 2017
    Ah I see. Sure, go forth
    WotanArgead likes this.
  19. Threadmarks: Miscelanous: Church of the East in the Eleventh Century, Part I.

    Tomislav Addai Well-Known Member

    May 13, 2017
    This entry is about the Church of the East (ܥܕܬܐ ܕܡܕܢܚܐ‎, transliterated: ʽĒttāʾ d-Maḏenḥā), often colloquially referred to as the Nestorian Church, the Persian Church or the Assyrian Church. The Church of the East is one of the largest Christian denominations in the medieval world, and by far the dominant one to the east of the Euphrates River. It as parishes in places so far apart as he coasts of Somalia and the Naiman and Kerait Steppes, from Kerala in India to the marshes along the rivers of Ob and Irtysh.

    The Seljuq conquests have brought Nestorian communities further westward into the Levant, and most importantly, brought the Holy Land under Nestorian control.

    The Church of the East did accept the results of the first two councils in early Christianity, those of Nicaea and the First Council of Constantinople. However, it rejected the results of the Council of Ephesus and the following ones. For their part, the Nestorians were not invited anyway, so had no real say in the matter. From their point of view, those “ecumenical councils” were concerning Christianity in the Mediterranean, and were not universally valid.

    Nestorian theology emphasizes the distinctiveness of the divine and human natures of Jesus Christ. These two are loosely united. Summarized in one sentence, Nestorian Christology says: "Jesus Christ, who is not identical with the Son but personally united with the Son, who lives in him, is one hypostasis and one nature: human."

    As you can see from the chart above, Nestorian theology is a direct antithesis of the Monophysite and Miaphysite understanding, which are the theological positions of the Oriental Orthodox Communion (spanning from Himyar and Ethiopia through Nubia and Hejaz into Egypt, through Syria towards Armenia and Aghbania). The Oriental Orthodox practically teach that the human nature has lost its distinctiveness within the greater divine.

    In a peculiar way, the Christological position nearest to the Church of the East is actually that practically embraced by the Patriarchate of Rome, which is geographically furthest apart.

    Critics claim that Nestorianism is on the edge of Adoptionism (claiming that Jesus was an ordinary man before being adopted as God´s son… When? Perhaps during the temptation in the desert).

    From the practical point of view, the distinctiveness of Nestorianism is its reluctance to call Virgin Mary Theotokos (Mother of God). (1). Furthermore, the Church of the East tends to focus more on divine majesty and grandeur, with prostration being a very common gesture.

    Outside of Mesopotamia proper, the Church of the East came into contact with other established religions, namely Zoroastrianism in Persia and Buddhism further eastwards, although its main adversary was Manicheism, which came a little earlier than Assyrian monks to many places along the Silk Road. A layer of Manicheism has indeed entered the “folk Nestorianism” further eastwards, in Sogdia and the Steppes.

    During the past century, the Church has managed to wrestle dominance in the regions around the Silk Road from the Manicheans, partly due to higher birth rates, partly due to the organized effort of Assyrian monks and partly due to royal patronage (the Karakhanids and the Seljuqs are Nestorian Christians).


    A Nestorian Church in northern Mesopotamia
    The Church of the East has only one Religious Head, and is thus administered in a very centralized manner (2). The Katholikos, or Patriarch of the East resides in Qtēspōn (Seleucia-Ctesiphon), the former capital of the Sassanid Empire in Mesopotamia.

    The Nestorian Church does not have any autocephalous or autonomous jurisdictions; all parishes are organized into dioceses, and the dioceses are grouped into Metropolitan Provinces under the authority of the Metropolitan archbishop (these participate in the election of the Patriarch of the East).

    The ordained clergy are in the traditional orders of bishops, priests and deacons. Parallel to them is the Order of Mar Addai (3), a movement of Nestorian monasticism ready for evangelization with a missionary zeal. Throughout the Silk Road, the Order of Mar Addai has built a network of monasteries, multifunctional centres, with the Church being the dominant, and equipped with a hospital, a library, a school and an inn(4). In the Steppes, the monasteries were often the core around which small towns, which later grew into cities were established.

    Each monk would belong to a particular discipline: with medics, scribes, teachers, social aid workers (5), as well as technical upkeep guys. All of these disciplines operate synergically within one monastery, just as the limbs function together in one body, carrying out different functions.

    The rules of each monastery are determined by its abbot, and as such there exists a greater liberty or variety in monastic life compared to other churches. The monasteries operate in close cooperation with the local church, but are not fully subordinate to their bishop. Rather, the Order of Mar Addai itself is also territorially subdivided as well. The office of the Visitor (6) is the intermediary between the Patriarch and the individual monasteries; the Visitors cover each province of the Order of Mar Addai and oversee the monastic life and discipline.

    But let us get back to the territorial organization of the Church. The Metropolitan provinces are the top divisions of the Church, and have been in general divided into Interior and Exterior provinces, with the border on the ridges of the Zagros. In the 11th century, such a division becomes problematic, for it raises the question as of where to put Beth Qatriye or Syria – the former being outside of scope of the border and Syria being practically a diasporic province.

    [​IMG]Metropolitan Provinces

    Province of the Patriarch
    The province of the Patriarch is the area surrounding the city and Patriarchal See at Qtēspōn (ܩܛܝܣܦܘܢ). Suffragan dioceses include : Hirta (ܚܝܪܬܐ‎, Arabic ‎ al-Ḥīrah, الحيرة Beth Darayeh( (ܒܝܬ ܕܐܪܐܝܗ) , Dasqarta d´Malka (ܕܐܣܩܐܪܬܐ ܕ ܡܐܠܟܐ), Peroz Shapur (ܦܪܙ ܫܐܦܪ), Karme (ܟܪܡܗ), Tirhan (ܬܪܗܐܢ), Sena (ܣܢܗ), Ukbara (ܘܟܒܪܗ), Radhan (ܪܛܢ) and Arar.

    Province of Kashkar
    Located on the lower Tigris, the province of Kashkar (ܟܫܟܪ ) had long been part of the Province of the Patriarch and had been separated from it only recently. The Bishops (now Metropolitans) had enjoyed the privilege of guarding the patriarchal throne during an interregnum. It had one suffragan diocese: Zabe (ܝܐܒܥ)

    Province of Beth Huzaye
    The province of Beth Huzaye (ܒܝܬ ܗܘܙܝܐ ) was based in Gundeshapur (Syriac: Beth Lapat: ܒܝܬ ܠܦܛ ). Other dioceses include : Karka d´Ledan (ܟܪܟܐ ܕ ܠܕܢ), Hormizd Ardashir (ܗܪܡܝܕ ܐܪܕܫܝܪ), Shushtar (ܫܘܫܛܪ), Ramhormoz (ܪܡ ܗܪܡܝ), Susa (ܫܘܫ), Darrenshar (7) (ܕܐܪܢܫܐܗܪ) and Shahpur Qwast (8) (ܫܐܦܘܪ ܩܐܤܬ)

    Province of Nisibis
    The province of Nisibis (ܢܨܝܒܝܢ) encompassed a large area in the Gozarto or island between the Euhrates and Tigris. Suffragan dioceses include Arzun (ܐܪܝܘܢ), Qardu (ܩܪܕܘ, Kurds), Beth Zabdai (ܒܝܬ ܙܒܕܐ), Beth Moksaye, Beth Rahimay, Tamanon, Harran, Maiperqat (ܡܝܦܪܩܝܛ), Balad, Shigar (9), Beth Tabyathe , Qaymar, Hesn d´Kifa (ܟܐܦܐ‎) and also covered a bishopric for Armenia at Halat (10).

    Province of Maishan
    The Province of Maishan (ܡܝܫܢ) was based in the area of the Mesopotamian estuary into the Persian Gulf. The Metropolitan Archdiocese was Prath d´Maishan (ܦܪܬ ܕܡܝܫܢ) (11), and suffragans include Karka d´Maishan (ܟܪܟܐ ܕܡܝܫܢ), Rima (ܪܝܡܐ) and Nahargur (ܢܗܪܓܘܪ).

    Province of Adiabene
    The Metropolitan Province of Adiabene (Syriac: Hadyab ܚܕܝܐܒ) was located in the region of the Upper Tigris River and its Zab tributaries. Eventually, the Niniveh region got separated to form a new metropolitan province

    The seat of the Archbishop was thus Arbela (ܐܪܒܝܠܐ), suffragan dioceses are Ramonin, Dabarin, Maaltha, Hnitha, Hebton, Hdatta (ܚܕܬܐ ), Salakh (ܣܠܟ )

    Province of Niniveh
    The region of Ninwe (ܢܝܢܒ݂ܐ )(12) was separated as a distinct Metropolitan see from Adiabene, and this new Metropolitan province also includes the bishoprics of Taimana, Nuhadra (ܢܘܗܕܪܐ )(13), Beth Dasen, Marga and Beth Bgash.

    Province of Beth Beth Garmai
    The province of Beth Garmai is based on Karka d´Beth Slokh (ܟܪܟܐ ܕܒܝܬ ܣܠܘܟ ) (14). Other dioceses within this province are Shahrgard, Lashom (ܠܫܘܡ ), Khanijar, Mahoze d´Arewan (ܡܚܘܙܐ ܕܐܪܝܘܢ), Radani, Hrbath Glal (ܚܪܒܬܓܠܠ), Tahal and Shahrzur.

    Province of Beth Qatriye
    The province of Beth Qatriye (ܒܝܬ ܩܛܪܝܐ ) is located on the southern coast of the Persian Gulf, with dioceses located at Meshmashiq, Dairin, Hagar(15), Hatta and Yamamah. The metropolitan see was at Mezruah. The Christians of Beth Qatriye were often reminded by the Patriarchs that the practice of slavery was not in accordance with Christian ethics; thus officially they remain serfs however.

    Province of Beth Parsaye
    The metropolitan province of Beth Parsaye (ܒܝܬ ܦܪܣܝܐ )encompasses land on both shores of the Straits of Hormuz; the metropolitan see is located at Rev Ardashir, and suffragan dioceses being located at Istakhr, Ardashir Khurraf (16), Darabgard, Bih Shapur (17), Qish, Hormuz and Mazoun. The province also extends estawards to include the diocese of Gwadar and Karachi. Beth Parsaye was, as its name suggests, Persophone and was in a dispute with the Syriac-speaking heartland of the Church; ultimately, Beth Qatriye and Suqutra had been detatched to form separate metropolitan provinces. Christianity in Beth Parsaye is heavily influenced by neighbouring faiths, especially Zoroastrianism, Mazdakism and Manicheanism; to such an extent that complaints from Qtespon regarding Persianate practices such as taking multiple wives are often shrugged upon.

    Province of Suqutra
    The Island of Suqutra in the Indian Ocean has been elevated to a Metropolitan See due to it being considered a forward base of further missionary enterprises on the African Coast, to a lesser extent also in Himyar. The seat of the Archdiocese is at Hadibou; suffragan bishoprics include those of Sana, Aden, Hadhramawt, and Mosylon (18)

    Province of Syria
    Let us not forget the westernmost outpost of the Nestorian world, the metropolitan province of Syria seated in Damascus, with its suffragan dioceses in Aleppo, Jerusalem, Mambeg,Mopsuestia, Malatya and Tarsus. The earliest parishioners were diasporic communities who fled the early Rhomaic-Persian wars. Later, they were accompanied by Mesopotamian merchants and pilgrims (in the region of Jerusalem). Ultimately, during the 11th century, the most important segment of the Nestorian community in the area became the Seljuq conquerors. After the Rhomaic reconquist, most of them are located within the Archdiocese of Damascus or the diocese of Jerusalem. Relations with the Syriac Orthodox Church, professed by the majority in the environs of Damascus remain rather hostile, the relations with the Chalcedonians less so. However, after the Custody of the Holy Land is placed under the control of Nestorian monks, who collect high fees, tensions fire high.

    (1) This is the instant way to get labelled as a heretic in Asia. Don’t do that!

    (2) As opposed to all other denominations.

    (3) Saint Thaddeus

    (4) The idea in general was adopted from that on Ill Bethisad Wiki on Assyrian monasticism.

    (5) Yes this expression sounds funny in the medieval period. But yeah these monks were the ones who took care of the needy.

    (6) Or inspector, although that has a rather stricter association

    (7) In Lorestan

    (8) Khoremmabad

    (9) Sinjar

    (10)Ahlat. However, this diocese was relatively large and had very few parishes.








    (18) In Somalia
  20. Threadmarks: Miscenlanous:Church of the East in Eleventh Century, Part II.

    Tomislav Addai Well-Known Member

    May 13, 2017
    Continuing with the metropolitan provinces of the Church of the east, we are now taking a look vat the so-called Exterior provinces (which usually also include Beth Paraye), so here we go:
    Province of Hulwan
    The province of Hulwan (ܚܘܠܘܐܢ ) is located in historical Media, that is the area between the Zagros and the Elborz Mountains. The metropolitan see is located in Hulwan, and suffragan dioceses include Hamadan ( the diocese is often referred to as Beth Madaye), Masabadan, Dinawar and Nihawand. The area of the metropolitan province is relatively large, with most of the Christians located in the south.

    Province of Rai
    The metropolitan province of Rai (1) encompasses also the areas of the central Iranian plateau, mainly by its suffragan dioceses of Ispahan and Kirman. The latter two have been detatched from their original province (Beth Parsaye and Khuzestan) under the Seljuks, who also separated the the province of Tabarestan from Rai

    Province of Tabarestan
    The rather small metropolitan province of Tabarestan was detatched from Rai relatively recently under the Seljuks. The seat of the province is Astarabad in Gorgan, and suffragan dioceses had been established in Mazandaran and Gilan. However, the central and western parts of the Caspian shore appear to have very few to no new converts.

    Province of Merv
    The Metropolitan Province of Merv encompasses a Christian-majority region along the Silk Road. Suffragan dioceses include Abiward, Nishapur, Tus and Abrashahr, and Pusang

    Province of Herat
    The province of Herat used to be part of the province of Merv; its suffragan dioceses are Merv-i-Rud, Pusang, Badisi and Qadistan, Segestan and Farrah. The vast southern expanses of the province are effectively mission territory, populated mostly by Manicheans and Buddhists.

    Province of Samarqand
    The city of Samarqand had become a major centre of Christianity in Sogdia, and its metropolitan province extends well along the entirety of the Oxus valley. Suffragan dioceses include Amul, Bokhara, Arbinjan, Nasaf, Faryab, Balkh and Tukharistan. The region of Khwarezm on the lower Oxus is part of the diocese of Bokhara; and Buddhist-majority Tukharistan also has only one diocese. In the area, Nestorian faith is intertwined with Manichean and Buddhist influences.

    Province of Farghana
    Detached from the province of Samarqand is the metropolitan province of Farghana, also using Sogdian for liturgy. Within the province are the dioceses of Uzkand, Khohjand, Bunjikath, Otrar and Shash (2)

    Province of Beth Tourkaye
    The province of Beth Tourkaye includes the original ancestral lands of the Oghuz Turks. The Metropolitan see is located at Yangikent, and has dioceses in Syganak, Ustyurt and Dihistan.

    Province of Beth Qipqak
    The Province of Beth Qipqak or Kipchakia is located in the vast areas of the central steppe, with its metropolitan see located at Imakia, and dioceses of Dakhlan, Kumandar and Kipchakia. The Kipchak and Kimek people are relatively new converts, with many Tengriist practices remaining.

    Province of Navekath
    The Metropolitan province of Navekath was established for the Karluk people; and it includes also the dioceses of Almaliq, Balasagun and the dioceses of “Naimans and Kereits”. The last one was established in the course of the 11th century; those two Mongolic tribes are recent converts.

    Province of Kashgar
    The province of Kashgar encompasses the area of the Tarim Basin, and has the suffragan diocese of Khotan, Yarkand , Qocho, Beshbaliq and Gaochang. The majority of the populace are however either Buddhists or Manicheans. The established Christian community are mostly foreign merchants, or local converts attracted by Assyrian monks.

    Province of Tangut and Ong
    The metropolitan province of Tangut and Ong includes lands at the northwestern periphery of China. Based in the Tangut capital of Xingqing, and has a network of dioceses in Zhangye, Dunhaung, Ling and Ordos.

    Province of Kerala
    In the southern extremity of Asia, is the Metropolitan province of Kerala. Based in Cranganore, the network of Nestorian bishoprics in Southern India includes the bishoprics of Ceylon, Maldives, Cochin, Kollam, and Mylapore

    Province of Goa
    The Konkani Coast on the western coast of India is organized under the Archbishopric of Goa, and the dioceses of Kalyan and Angamely

    (1) Located near Tehran

    (2) Tashkent