Climate Policy in a surviving USSR

[fasquardon]

Frankly, I suspect an eco-focused SU would have a period of decades where an army/KGB coup could happen at basically any minute, because reforming and greenstreaming the core regions would pretty much demand retreating from the periphery.

Good POD for an apocalypse timeline, actually.

I am doubtful. The army/KGB faction was actually pretty reformist. The coup of 1991 only happened when the Soviet Union itself was breaking apart - they didn't revolt when Eastern Europe was lost, they didn't revolt at Gorbachev bringing in market reforms, or uncorking the bottle of lies so truth could pour fourth freely, or when the Communist Party's monopoly on power was broken... But in 1991 when it looked like Gorbachev couldn't hold the Union itself together.

fasquardon

 

[Garetor]

I am doubtful. The army/KGB faction was actually pretty reformist. The coup of 1991 only happened when the Soviet Union itself was breaking apart - they didn't revolt when Eastern Europe was lost, they didn't revolt at Gorbachev bringing in market reforms, or uncorking the bottle of lies so truth could pour fourth freely, or when the Communist Party's monopoly on power was broken... But in 1991 when it looked like Gorbachev couldn't hold the Union itself together.

fasquardon

It's depressing to think that even one of the two superpowers of the 20th century changing course couldn't do much to avert our current suicidal destination, and might in fact have only sped it up because of spite from the opposing side.

 

[fasquardon]

It's depressing to think that even one of the two superpowers of the 20th century changing course couldn't do much to avert our current suicidal destination, and might in fact have only sped it up because of spite from the opposing side.

Hm, well, let's say they do radically change (I do think this is VERY unlikely - all states tend to be slow to reform). The Soviets go from "war against Earth" to "war for Earth". The Soviets start saying that freedom of the working class requires ownership of the means of production and the good care of the environment of the working people. They still need to maintain a competitive military, which means a competitive industrial base (though they can streamline their industrial base significantly) because the USA is serious about the Cold War. They can constrain consumption by the rest of the economy and cut back on certain parts of the military, but there's limits to both. They need to be able to defend the Soviet Union and supply a decent standard of living to Soviet citizens.

The new ideology still needs to deal with the same old corruption as well. So the Soviets are constrained from the inside and the outside on how far they can go. But maybe with ecological stewardship as a core priority of the leadership the Soviets can match or even exceed the ecological benefits that came from the uncontrolled economic collapse of OTL.

fasquardon

 

[GeographyDude]

Svante Arrhenius believed global warming would be good for Sweden.

Maybe the Soviets believe something similar, even given that Ukraine is a bread basket. People are very astute on who wins and who lose, too much so.

 

[basileus]

If you want to see the Soviet approach to the environment, go visit Prague. There's so many beautiful, historic statues that are black from decades of soot, and that's 20 years after the fall of communism.

That says even more about the approach of the Czech government to restoration and preservation of its considerable treasures of art... In Milan, without Communists but with auir clinging to the soil particulary in winter because of the closed basin geography (just as in Bohemia), the Duomo was black with soot too. But in the end of the Eighties a major operation of cleaning was successfully implemented. And the venerable Gothic cathedral is today, if not shining, considerably cleaner than it ever was during the XIXth and XXth century.