As I recall Johnston marched to Jackson and evacuated it after he got there then told Pemberton to link up with his forces ((which didn't happen)) then spent the rest of the time arguing with Davis. However it wasn't the Army of Tennesse because the AOT was with Braxton Bragg at the time and would be until Bragg lost at Chattanooga a couple of months later.
Civil War Sealion: The Capture of Washington, D.C.
- Thread starter Amerigo Vespucci
- Start date
As I recall Johnston marched to Jackson and evacuated it after he got there then told Pemberton to link up with his forces ((which didn't happen)) then spent the rest of the time arguing with Davis. However it wasn't the Army of Tennesse because the AOT was with Braxton Bragg at the time and would be until Bragg lost at Chattanooga a couple of months later.
67th Tigers
Banned
It was Gregg's Division (6,000) at Jackson, the relief force was Kirby Smiths (about 30,000).
bard32
Banned
A little known fact about the Civil War. Abraham Lincoln, through Montgomery
Blair, had offered command of the Army Potomac, (Union Army,) to Robert E.
Lee, who refused it because he said he couldn't fight against his country.
Command of the Army of the Potomac eventually went to Ervin McDowell,
who was its commander at the time of Bull Run, (Manassas,) to the Confederates. If the Army of the Potomac had won, then the Civil War would
have been over. After McDowell, there were George B. McClellan, (twice,)
Joseph Hooker, George G. Meade, and finally, Ulysses S. Grant. The only way
the South could have captured Washington, D.C., was if Maryland had gone the
way of Virginia.
Blair, had offered command of the Army Potomac, (Union Army,) to Robert E.
Lee, who refused it because he said he couldn't fight against his country.
Command of the Army of the Potomac eventually went to Ervin McDowell,
who was its commander at the time of Bull Run, (Manassas,) to the Confederates. If the Army of the Potomac had won, then the Civil War would
have been over. After McDowell, there were George B. McClellan, (twice,)
Joseph Hooker, George G. Meade, and finally, Ulysses S. Grant. The only way
the South could have captured Washington, D.C., was if Maryland had gone the
way of Virginia.
Amen
Amen. I do have two amendments.
First, let me clarify a bit about the MD countryside. I've read the same thing in history books as you said, but I've seen evidence that alot (most?) of the bit of Maryland Lee marched through was Reb - at least, the predecessor to today's DC burb of of Gaithersburg, Most of the countryside had slave-labor farms, I think the bits that would've been pro-Union would've been the cities, which Lee mostly stayed away from.
But, invading DC would also have been hard because it was an era of the defensive, where any kind of invasion was extra-hard, except near water. No, the Confederates' best chance would've been to stay on the defensive. IF they'd been better-lead, they coulda stayed in existence.
Amen. I do have two amendments.
First, let me clarify a bit about the MD countryside. I've read the same thing in history books as you said, but I've seen evidence that alot (most?) of the bit of Maryland Lee marched through was Reb - at least, the predecessor to today's DC burb of of Gaithersburg, Most of the countryside had slave-labor farms, I think the bits that would've been pro-Union would've been the cities, which Lee mostly stayed away from.
But, invading DC would also have been hard because it was an era of the defensive, where any kind of invasion was extra-hard, except near water. No, the Confederates' best chance would've been to stay on the defensive. IF they'd been better-lead, they coulda stayed in existence.
Are you familiar with the fact that Genl Jubal Early might have been able to take DC late in the war for real? Apparently there was some sort of letdown in Federal security, but Early failed to exploit it.
Early had about 14,000 men but when he saw the Union defenses he decided not to assault them, though he did use artillery and there was heavy skirmishing. The defenses were held by the XXII Corps, who had been reinforced by the veteran VI and XIX Corps. Elements of the VIII Corps also helped against Early.
If you get a POD where he isn't delayed for a day, he'll be able to arrive, set up, and assault the fortifications when they were at their weakest state in the whole war -- they hadn't been kept up well, and Grant had been liberally stripping men from the defenses to reinforce the Army of the Potomac.
It's possible that Early's force could've broken through, but with heavy losses. After that, what? He'll have a hole in the ring of defenses, but so what? Reinforcements are going to be arriving from the south, and even if he advances quickly, he's going to meet them along the northern edge of the city. He won't have enough men to engage in a stand-up fight with those reinforcements, and he'll be threatened by encirclement from troops massing along the edges of his penetration. The problem for Early is that even if he gets to the defenses quickly enough, he does not have enough forces to make a successful raid.
Once you tally up the casualties he'd take breaking through the outer ring of defenses (even with as few soldiers were available prior to reinforcements), the need to station flank guards to provide for an escape route, and everything else needed to operate in an extremely hostile environment, he won't have enough men to make even a lightly successful raid on the city.
The Catch-22 in all this is that if the Confederates launch a raid with more men, their column will move slower. That will allow the Union Army to counter the move more quickly, thus nullifying the advantage. You could see that during Lee's two invasions of Maryland. Once it became clear that the whole Confederate Army of Northern Virginia was headed north, the Army of the Potomac moved to follow and interpose itself between the Confederate Army and Washington.
Past a certain point, a 19th century army simply becomes too large to move quickly in enemy territory. A small force won't have the oomph to penetrate the defenses, and a larger force will be correspondingly answered by a larger portion of the Army of the Potomac.
Kaptin Kurk
Banned
Again, no Army during the Civil War was destroyed, akin to the way Armies were destroyed in the Napoleonic wars. Despite achieving this being the dream of every civil war officer to serve, perhaps Grant excluded. Anyway, capturing D.C. would have required the destruction of a Northern Army, even after Bull Run, and while this is the best bet, technology still makes this highly unlikely
*Note, it's not because civil war generals were inept that no army was destroyed after a battle, but because the infantry man, even the terrified and retreating infantry man, and his artillerman collegues, were still much more of a threat to pursuing cavalry than they had been a generation before.
*Note, it's not because civil war generals were inept that no army was destroyed after a battle, but because the infantry man, even the terrified and retreating infantry man, and his artillerman collegues, were still much more of a threat to pursuing cavalry than they had been a generation before.
I'm not sure you have to truly "destroy" the Army of the Potomac for this to work.
But it would be an immensely difficult task to cripple it sufficiently as to make no difference, AND to keep it from just entering Washington.
IMO, it's not Sealion - but it would take things going right that were very unlikely to go right. But it's a matter of human resources, not "the CSA lacked heavy artillery" that will doom it in any plausible timeline.
But it would be an immensely difficult task to cripple it sufficiently as to make no difference, AND to keep it from just entering Washington.
IMO, it's not Sealion - but it would take things going right that were very unlikely to go right. But it's a matter of human resources, not "the CSA lacked heavy artillery" that will doom it in any plausible timeline.